Gabriel Seth question

[the jeske]

Since Seth's SR doesn't specifically mention it, I would assume (eek.gif) both players roll to Wound simultaneously and resolve Saves accordingly. The enemy's hits still landed, whether before or the same time as Seth's headbutt/crotch-kick/etc.The dice show 'x' Hits and 'x' 1s: enemy rolls the 'hits' and Seth rolls the '1s.'

seth wounds first. his roll to hit and to wound happen after attacks to hit by his opponent were made , the part when its your opponent turn to roll to wound didnt happen yet. Seth and his rule in a sense create an extra hth phase for his controler as soon as his opponent rolls a 1.

[Leonaides]

Does that actually matter? The other attacks have already hit Seth. You still have to resolve the damage each hit does, whether or not the other model happens to now die at the same initiative step. How is this different from to squads at I4 attacking each other? Does the guy who happens to roll his dice second not get to attack with the guys who the enemy have already killed (even though its all at I4)? Of course not...

[Venemox]

I think the real crux of the matter hangs on the usage of the word 'immiedaitey'. Absolutely nothing else happens between rolling the 1 and using the FI rule. I think it's fairly explicit with the use of that single term as to what happens. I would clasiify 'pick up the dice you wish to re-roll and roll them again' as an intervening object, which runs counter to the textbook definition of 'immediately'. The FI rule also says for 'every roll of one to hit', so that would (superficially, at least) appear to say that occurs on rolls or re-rolls.

 

Looking at page 2 of the BRB, it says 'the second roll counts', which would seem to imply (but not explicitly say) that the initail roll is to dsiregarded. Standard interpretaion of that statement (mostly with regards to Gets Hot) would seem to support the initial roll being disregarded, but this looks to moslty be a community decision vice a black and white statement.

 

From a RAI standpoint, I could see either before re-rolls (strict interpretation of immediately) or after them (implied by the BRB), but not both.

 

As a BA player, I don't play that way, or try to enforce that strict and literal interpretation. 1's after any re-rolls due are what I look for, and it's what I expect from across the table. I've never encountered any other intreprettion at the table, though I would be up for discussing and (probably) rolling off for it it the interest of friendly gaming and keeping the game moving.

 

I'm more interested in the answer to the other question. If the FI hit kills the poor sap that rolled the 1, what happens to the remaining (potential successful) attacks?

 

EDIT: Of course, 2 seperate posts (with differing opinions) get made while I'm asking that question...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The rule says "for every roll of '1' to hit Seth...". If a unit can re-roll their to-hit rolls then initially rolling a '1' is not a "roll of '1' to hit Seth". It is only one stage in rolling to hit, unless the controlling player chooses not to re-roll the '1'. Assuming that the player chooses to re-roll, then the result of the re-roll is the to-hit roll and only if that is a '1' does Seth get to make his attack.

 

As for p2, if "the second score counts" then, as a matter both basic English and logic, it is utterly necessary that the first does not.

[AbusePuppy]

Looking at page 2 of the BRB, it says 'the second roll counts', which would seem to imply (but not explicitly say) that the initail roll is to dsiregarded. Standard interpretaion of that statement (mostly with regards to Gets Hot) would seem to support the initial roll being disregarded, but this looks to moslty be a community decision vice a black and white statement.

Even though it does not explicitly say that the first roll does not count, by definition it must not count- each die can only have a single result and, if you count the second result is what is used, the first must not be used. A single die cannot result in both rolling a four and a one.

 

Whether Seth's attacks kill a model is similarly irrelevant, as you completely resolve all attacks of a given initiative step even if the models involved die during that step. Technically speaking, I suppose, Seth's attacks would interrupt the attack sequence, which could be relevant (if, say, he tore a CCW off a Dreadnought or reduced the Doom of Malan'tai's Wounds value, and thus its Strength as well), but for the most part you can resolve all of the attacks, including the "bonus" attacks he makes, just as you normally would.

[Sanguinarian]

I think we've come to a consensus concerning re-rolled 1s, but I think we're still unclear about when to resolve Seth's attacks.

 

The OT stated that - in this case - enemy Chaplain (not Reclusiarch) + Assault Squad attacked Seth and his Assault Squad.

 

***Seth goes first with 4 attacks:

WS6/S8 x4 vs. WS5/T4 (Chaplain) or

WS6/S8 x4 vs. WS4/T4 (Squad)???

 

***If Chaplain survives, he goes next with 2+1+1 attacks:

WS5/S4 x4 vs. WS6/T4 (Seth)

Needs 4s to Hit; rolls 1,1,1,1 (as noted in

OT

); re-rolls all 4, gets 2 1s don't know if any Hits???

"Immediately" in Seth's rule means he scores 2 S4 hits

Let's say Chaplain got 2 Hits

 

***Even "if" we use Init order and Seth resolves 1st, it's ONLY 2 S4 hit vs. a Chaplain's 3+/4++!?! No big deal.

 

***IMHO, I think they should both roll simultaneous to Wound: 2 for each.

 

***Let's say that miraculously the Chaplain loses his 2W and dies, BUT HE HAS 2 WOUNDS THAT STILL HIT AND WOUNDED SETH!!! Seth needs to roll his 2 Saves, even though the Chaplain died.

 

Close Combat is a whirring blur and Init order helps us slow it down, but for the most part since Seth's rule doesn't specifically say we need this part resolved. To the OR for more votes I presume.

[Morollan]

I would say resolve them simultaneously with the other attacks in the current initiative step. So in the intitial example, Seth would strike first, followed by the Chaplain. Assume that (after re-rolls) the Chaplain rolls 2 1's and the other 2 attacks are hits. Seth and Chaplain then roll to wound and make any applicable saves and then we move onto the attacks from the assault marines in the usual way. Even if Seth's FI attacks somehow kill the Chaplain, the Chaplain's own attacks still work as normal.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I would say resolve them simultaneously with the other attacks in the current initiative step.

 

As would I, mainly because that's what the rules say.

 

I don't see how there is any confusion as to when Seth's FI attacks take place.

[Morollan]

From the latest main rulebook FAQ:

 

Q: How do dice rolls that can trigger an effect from a

special rule (such as rolling a 1 To Hit when shooting a

weapon with the Gets Hot! special rule) interact with

re-rolls? (p2)

A: You only check to see if the effect has been

triggered after the re-rolls have been made.

[Venemox]

From the latest main rulebook FAQ:

 

Q: How do dice rolls that can trigger an effect from a

special rule (such as rolling a 1 To Hit when shooting a

weapon with the Gets Hot! special rule) interact with

re-rolls? (p2)

A: You only check to see if the effect has been

triggered after the re-rolls have been made.

 

I think this was the consensus that was reached on the question. It's nice to see the B&C +OR+ brains achieve the same decisions as the developers.