Anrica Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hokay. I've been in and out of the hobby for a long time now, since about 2000 - and aas such, a lot of my models are rather old. Compounding this, I've just bought a job lot of old stuff off of a mate, making my army an even more frantic mix of old and new. Thing is, as those of you with long memories can attest, Terminators took some growth hormone while I was away. The new models are larger, and as such use larger bases. Should I be rebasing my old, small termies to this larger size for rules reasons? All of my models are currently based on the size they came with (with the arguable exception of a kitbash Belial, whose base is in scale with the older models I generally attach him to - he's a fify fifty mix of old and new bits), which would seem to follow the letter of the rule. I'm reluctant to retire my old Deathwing (especially since there's a couple of OOP metal Deathwing in there from around the time of the Angels of Death codex, who I'm very attached to), but I also find the idea of slamming a model only slightly bigger than a modern Tac Marine on the base for a much broader model ludicrous. What's the best thing to do here? Thus far I have had no complaints from other players about this, even when feilding a mix of old and new (not in the same squad, obviously), but I thought it best to check before I end up at a tournament with a bunch of models I can't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 My opinion is now. RAW says models must be based with the base they came with. But some events will require the larger bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you're going to play at a tournament with old termies it depends on their policy on bases. Usually it's "the base that they're supplied with" as the BRB states, then you can get away with old models on 25mm bases if you like. Whacking them on 40mm bases as per their more modern counterparts is a matter of taste, really, but if you want to avoid the inevitable debate with someone who takes the game waaay too seriously then 40mm bases are a safer bet, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Rules say bases they were supplied with. They were supplied with 25mm bases. Check the tournament rules, but unless they state otherwise, the rules are clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Go for the larger bases. It gives you the ability to cover more area, longer bubble wrap lines, and even a greater charge range after disembarking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 As a long time Dark Angel player I also have several older metal Terminators on the 25mm base. To save trouble I have glued them directly to a high grade poker chip. The chips are 40mm and also give the terminators just a touch of extra height, as the metal ones are a bit shorter. I also use the chips for bases for converted Space Hulk terminators. You should use the base they come with as per the rules but those same rules do allow different bases as long as your opponent does not mind. I have never had a problem as they all are fairly uniform at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 25mm bases are what the older ones came with- RAW you should use those. And thats what Id say to anyone who gives you crap about it. Now, that being said I have 40mm bases for all of mine, and the 25mm base sits inside of the terrain I puttied onto them so I can switch them out if the TO is being weird. If you like this is a good way to please 'everyone'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrica Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks to all for a swift response! It's good to know that it shouldn't be that much of a problem... Now, that being said I have 40mm bases for all of mine, and the 25mm base sits inside of the terrain I puttied onto them so I can switch them out if the TO is being weird. If you like this is a good way to please 'everyone'. Hmm. I might get some spare 40s and a pack of blu-tack for emergencies... Go for the larger bases. It gives you the ability to cover more area, longer bubble wrap lines, and even a greater charge range after disembarking.... Good points, but for me offset by how odd it looks. Tabletop advantage doesn't feel worth the aesthetic sacrifice. I'd only want to change if it was necesssary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I am in the same boat dude... I debate if the terminators are really that much larger... for example if you place the models back to back they are exactly the same physical size.... I also took the arms off a new model terminator and placed it against an old one and they fit together easily... The model stance with the wider feet placement in the newer cast really makes it seem bigger... but it isn't not even the slightest.. I glued my old Terminators to the bases of 40mm ... I had to order the 4.99 bases that only come 5 to a box. Didn't think of poker chips... they blend in easily.. its how your local area does the base regulations.. but as a common note... people you play against will toss dice at you for not getting them the right size dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I am in the same boat dude... I debate if the terminators are really that much larger... for example if you place the models back to back they are exactly the same physical size.... I also took the arms off a new model terminator and placed it against an old one and they fit together easily... The model stance with the wider feet placement in the newer cast really makes it seem bigger... but it isn't not even the slightest.. I glued my old Terminators to the bases of 40mm ... I had to order the 4.99 bases that only come 5 to a box. Didn't think of poker chips... they blend in easily.. its how your local area does the base regulations.. but as a common note... people you play against will toss dice at you for not getting them the right size dice... I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-75 old metal teminators of various flavors. The ones for my Space Wolves I rebased in order that they blend in with the newer plastics I bought to round out that force. Trying to arrange a Deep Striking unit with different base sizes just doesn't appeal to me. The others, for my non-codex army, will remain on their original 25mm bases, in all likelyhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 May as well throw my bit into the fire here. Old bases are legal and will probably fly, as people have said, but I recommend making the jump to the big ones for two reasons. First, as a courtesy to your opponents; see any of my Vanguard threads on Tactica for reasons why smaller bases are at times an advantage. Second, the bigger bases give you a lot more room to decorate them, which is half the fun. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Ah, but to be courteous to your opponent you'll actually want the small bases ;). Big bases allow for a bigger spread, more movement when disembarking, and are able to be a bigger wall-blocker. There is absolutely no advantage/disadvantage to one base size over the other, as whatever they have cancels out with the other size. That being said, my 60 metal stompers are on 25mils. My new plastics are on 40's. I don't have to worry about different base sizes in the same units because I have full squads of each base size, so no worries there. Since this topic gets asked every month or so, can it join the +OR+ FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've had this debate before with a TO a few years back. They had not stated it in their rules( i had asked beforehand) and GW had not released wolf guard terminators yet. He even argued that the Phrase was current tense not past so you could not use old bases,LOL. Fortunately I had some big bases with me. I actually think the old models size is more of an advantage than the base size which is useful in few situations certainly for the extra charge distance from a LR. Having smaller models/bases can annoy people and might not get you the best sportsmanships score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The terminators are actually the exact same size, both old and new. It's the pose that makes them look bigger. Disadvantages for small bases: In the movement phase, they can't disembark as far as big bases for longer assaults and can't spread out to cover more area as fast or as effectively. They can't provide a skirmish line as well as big bases to block assaults. In the shooting phase they can't spread out as much as big bases, so get hit by templates easier. In the assault phase, they can't, once again, spread out as much to deny attacks or other such cunning things the big bases can. Advantages for small bases: Smaller deepstrike footprint. If a vehicle they are in explodes (6) you can fit more into the footprint of the vehicle, this is especially useful if the vehicle is totally surrounded. In the movement phase they can hide behind LOS-blocking terrain more effectively since they have a smaller footprint. In the assault phase they can base contact single models, such as independent characters more easily (2-3 models on a single guy, as opposed to just one (typically)). And for all of those it's just the opposite for the big bases. They're totally equal, and anybody who gets annoyed at smaller bases and gives a low sports score for that should be ejected from the tournament, in my opinion. After all, the player is following the rules so why punish them? [edit] added that in ;) A DSing 25mil squad of 5 takes up 3.8 square inches, while a DSing 40mil squad of 5 takes up 9.8 square inches. Roughly. Still, how often are people actually deepstriking terminators these days? It's all about the assault terminator squads, not tactical terminator squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Advantages for small bases: Another one is that the smaller bases can more reliably Deep Strike into a cinfined space than the larger bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytool Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'd suggest...... MAGNETS they solve everything :) Pop one in the 25mm base and pop one under the 40m base, then grass the 40mm with the 25mm one on it. Ask the TO what they want and be done with it.... if you dont need the 40mm for the termi's then you can use them for objective markers. I'd suggest using fallen enemies on the 40mm bases makes the 40mm version look less cramped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 It gives you the ability to cover more area 6" stays 6", there moves distance dont get bigger due to bases being larger. Also stick them on 40mm bases, eg they are legal by rulebook ruling "may put on any base you like under any model without taking a smaller one", or something the like its in the Rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Might want to check on page 3 of the BRB. The 'any base as long as it is not larger' was a 4th Ed. rule. The current rules are the base it came with, if a different size then opponents permission. A line of 5 models with 25mm bases can be spread out to roughly 12" A line of 5 models with 40mm bases can be spread out to almost 15 1/2 " Although the move remains the same (6") the starting point is a 1/2" further when disembarking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromedog Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My metal terminators are all on 25mm bases. I do, however, have a batch of punched out 40mm bases that they slot into should they need to (however, since I no longer play tournaments, this is not that huge an issue). (I get my tourney jollies from Infinity these days). There are a large number of RT and 2nd ed SM models (including 11 Rhinos) in my marine army (as well as multipart 3rd ed+ marines). I've never "had" to rebase any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronk Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I bought some old terminators on 25mm bases. After stripping off the crappy paint job, I rebased them on 40mm bases. I didn't do it because I had to. Per RAW, it was the bases they were supplied with at the time. However, I wanted my miniatures to be accurate to what they would come with today and to avoid any confusion. I would not have a problem with you using your 25mm bases on the old Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would not have a problem with you using your 25mm bases on the old Terminators. End of the day, this is what it really boils down to. For the most part, any reasonable opponent won't bat an eyelash at something like this. (By reasonable opponent I mean one with sufficient faith in the Emperor, of course.) When you gear up for a tournament, you really need to anticipate the at-times less-than-ideal reality that you will engage with one or more unreasonable opponents. Don't get me wrong; their request that Terminators be based on 40mm bases is not intrinsically unreasonable. In my experience, you'll find that people will either get very angry about it or simply shrug because they just want to play. Look forward to the latter but be prepared for the former if tournaments are your goal. Just the way of it, sadly. If tournaments are not your goal, just ask the people you tend to game with what their feelings on it are; those are the expectations you really need to concern yourself with. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrica Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks again to all for your responses - partiluclarly enjoyed the number of you who said you personally wouldn't object to it! For the most part, any reasonable opponent won't bat an eyelash at something like this. (By reasonable opponent I mean one with sufficient faith in the Emperor, of course.) When you gear up for a tournament, you really need to anticipate the at-times less-than-ideal reality that you will engage with one or more unreasonable opponents. Don't get me wrong; their request that Terminators be based on 40mm bases is not intrinsically unreasonable. In my experience, you'll find that people will either get very angry about it or simply shrug because they just want to play. Look forward to the latter but be prepared for the former if tournaments are your goal. Just the way of it, sadly. Thanks - that seems like sound advice that I should take on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That's misquoted :) I am thade; not the esteemed Kronk. Very likely a mistake with quote tags. <3 Happy to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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