Dreadknight Help

[VAGABOND]

I'm fairly new to Grey Knights and bought 2 of the Dreadknight models because they looked ace and I was dying to include them in my Draigowing army but I'm having trouble using them to their full potential. Depending on what points level I'm playing I run them as follows.

 

1500

 

Personal Teleporter

Greatsword

 

And at 2000 I throw in a Heavy Incinerator on each of them.

 

I've used them a few times in games but they are being killed very quickly in melee and aren't doing well at causing a great deal of damage. I've tried using them off the table and Shunting them in and torching squads.

 

Could someone lend a brother a hand?

[Sir Clausel]

I have used 2 dreads with that wargear with good results. I use mine in a semi draigo wing army at 1,5k and 2k(at 2k I use another DK but this one is shooty)

Anyway do not use them to attack their close combat units but instead kill the devastor squads and tacticals and such. theyll kill them rather quickly and dont take that much damage them selves. They can also easily kill tank. Big and small. That reroll on armor penetration is goooood :D I usually use them as a pair. And if needed I split them up(which I do pretty often though).

And I actually dont care if they die in the first few turns. They usually soak up a lot of fire before they die so that is shots that could have been on your other units.

[breng77]

I think it really comes down on what you expect them to do. They should do fine in combat against standard troops, and non-pw wielding units. They are also effective against walkers, and other vehicles. But what they won't do is fight well against other monstrous creatures (it is a toss up and their low initiative and attacks hurt.), nor against elite assault units (TH/SS termies, Paladins, PW wielding foes.)

[VAGABOND]

Maybe I've just been putting them up against the wrong units then and I tend to use them in a team and break them off to go kill other things.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They are great as tank busters and great versus stuff like combat squads. If you can support them in melee with another unit they'll go a lot further but that's not always easy to do. They are very expensive for what you get. I typically outflank mine... Helps to get them where I need them most.

 

G :)

[RedemptionNL]

But what they won't do is fight well against other monstrous creatures (it is a toss up and their low initiative and attacks hurt.)

 

I can't say I've had a problem with these, especially if the Dreadknight has a Greatsword. I4 is still reasonable for monstrous creatures, you get re-roll to Hit and to Wound, and you have a force weapon to inflict Instant Death. Of course, a squad with a couple of Halberds is still better to deal with I4/5/6 MCs. :D

[Gentlemanloser]

As above, my NDKs have taken out their fair share of MCs, from being able to inflict a single wound and Force Weaponing them. Even if sometimes they die in return. :eek

 

I think the problem might actually be the PT here.

 

If you're not supporting them with other equally fast units (Squads in Rhinos you push forward, Interceptors, even Mordrak) you're leaving them out on thier own, and they will get targetted/torrented.

 

Support them with the rest of your army and you should find a marked increase in their prowess. ;)

[the jeske]

if your using just NDK then they should be outflanking limits your opponent response time + may screw over his deployment . depands on the army he plays . Puting them against anything good in hth is a bad idea . too few A for that and not enough inv to survive long enough . As others said good at hunting stuff like long range support units and stuff that stays at the back of the enemy army[long fangs class stuff, doom arks and tanks of all sorts , 5 man for razorbuilds but after one or two he may die from shoting if they also run fists in squads] .

[VAGABOND]

Thanks for all the help guys but I think I found the problem which is not backing them up enough and only keeping on the board and leaving my Ravens in reserve which mean't only my DK were on the board.

 

I've just finished putting together a new 2k list which I think may be my best yet but who knows, I'll hopefully test it out next week and see how it goes. I've not used a list like it before so it could be fun.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The heavy incinerator I think is the best weapon of choice as not much can hide from it and it does really bad things to certain xenos like dark eldar. ;)

 

G

[The Holy Heretic]

The NDK doesn't need support - cause its role is to support other units.

 

It provides anti-tank and draws a lot of fire. It'll get swamped by hordes and run over by dedicated assault units. Field it mainly for its size and the commotion it causes, but don't expect it to win your games, its neither tough, nor killy enough to do so :D

[breng77]

I can't say I've had a problem with these, especially if the Dreadknight has a Greatsword. I4 is still reasonable for monstrous creatures, you get re-roll to Hit and to Wound, and you have a force weapon to inflict Instant Death. Of course, a squad with a couple of Halberds is still better to deal with I4/5/6 MCs. smile.gif

 

I guess it just depends on the MCs that they are fighting. Tervigons, Mawlocs and Carnifexes, sure I can see that(though force weaponing a tervigon can be tough). Maybe even a trygon if you get the charge(probably not if it is a prime though.)

 

But I would think most Daemon Princes, the Avatar and Greater Daemons would come out on top due to superior initiative, better stats, and more attacks. In addition all of these are EW. I'm not sure about say a Talos. I did forget teh force weapon though.

 

I think the issue comes down to only have 4 wounds and a 5+ save in CC against other MCs, which means if they can possibly kill you before you get to swing, it is an issue.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The avatar is not an eternal warrior plus it gets nerfed by dark excommunication... Same the princes in the latter regard.

 

G :P

[breng77]

ummm... how does the Avatar get nerfed by Dark Ex. What Daemonic gifts does it have? In addition I thought it was a Daemon (subject to the Daemon rules as per codex eldar, making it EW but I'm not sure on this.) The Daemon codex Daemon Princes can be nerfed by Dark Ex., but they still have a higher I than the Dread Knight making it fairly even. The CSM Daemon Princes don't have any gifts so Dark Ex has no effect.

[Seahawk]

Can't nerf the Avatar because it doesn't have any daemonic gifts. It does count as being a Daemon though (it's in his unit entry), but that doesn't make him Eternal Warrior in the slightest. And you're right, the Chaos Space Marine Daemon Prince doesn't have any Daemonic gifts either ;).

[nurglez]

My usual DK is armed with a PT, HI and GS, and clocks in at 260 points. I use him alongside my draigo wing, and at 1500 points he is the cheapest unit in my force... Providing anti horde, anti cover saves, and is decent vs fast vehicles in assault.

 

However I am planning to replace him with 2 DK's without PT's, 1 armed as above, and 1 with just a HI. While I lose the speed, I gain another HI and 4 wound MC for 85 points. (I also lose a few other things and gain kill points, but at 1500 points I was rocking 4 kill points, which was just unfair ;) ).

 

I still need to play test this new force, as at 1500 points I haven't changed my old list at all. I feel that foot slogging DK's are viable, as you can deep strike them, or walk them up providing cover to another unit (large unit of paladins for me).

[breng77]

So with a sword (neither side charging)

 

the DK beats the Avatar (1.125 wounds to 0.89 wounds)

Assuming Dark Ex against Daemon MC (elsewise he loses some of these badly)

Kugath (DK wins 1.125-1.1, but if this combat goes through all rounds the DK loses do to fewer wounds)

Fateweaver(DK wins .35 to .22, so this fight probably lasts a long while, and Fateweaver will try to spawn him all the while)

Skarbrand Beats him down (2.96 to 1.125)

Keeper of Secrets (wins 1.56 -1.125)

GUO(DK wins .89-1.125, and should win in an drawn out fight due to initiative)

Bloodthirster(thirster wins 1.48 - 1.11)

Lord of Change wins due to Initiative(both do the same number of wounds, but LOC is I 5)

Daemon prince loses without gifts

 

As for CSM prince (if he has warp time he wins otherwise it is pretty even.)

[John Silver]

So with a sword (neither side charging)

 

...

Do you check possibility of casting physics power to negativate demonic gifts. I think that in case of that DK will be much better :)

[breng77]

I assumed that it was cast in any case in which it applied. If it does not get cast, against the Greater Daemons the DK gets his head handed to him in every fight against them.

 

The Dread Knight hits most Daemon MCs (and CC MCs in general) on 4s with a re-roll from the sword. Which means he hits 3 out of 4 times, then he wounds on 4s which means he wounds 2.25 times. All greater Daemons come standard with a 4++ save so 1.125 wounds per combat round.

 

Negating Daemonic Gifts means that he does not get stomped by a GUO with 2+ poison, or by a thirster with Blessing, or a Keeper with Transfixing gaze costing him an attack. It means he does not get instant killed by a Lord of Changes attacks etc. and it means he does not lose to a Daemon Prince.

 

Dark Ex does not effect any units not in the Daemon Dex.

 

So in reality the DK is worse than the numbers indicate by a slight bit because should that power fail he is less effective, or takes additional wounds from the gift powers.

[Gentlemanloser]

Facing Daemons, the Greatsword isn't the best choice, as the NDK is already getting rerolls to hit from PE:Daemon (Ha! Go Go Obliterators!).

 

Now, if only the NDK had Psyk-outs...

[breng77]

True, The Daemon hammer might be better since you lose on I anyway, but unless you are list tailoring, you will run with your usual kit, against any army. The GS still gets re-rolls to wound.

 

JUst doing the quick math

 

Hammer averages 1.25 wounds against the GDs

Sword averages 1.125

and Fists 0.9375.

 

So hammer is the best. Though it is close in wounds the fact that it drops the initiative advantage after 1 round makes a big difference.

 

But against most armies the sword is the weapon of choice for most people, so that is what I used for the math.

[VAGABOND]

Played today with both of them against a Black Templar player and they died after being multi charged off Terminators and shot to pieces from a tri Las Predator.

 

Really can't find a good use for them so I've dropped them for a Vindicare, Techmarine and 2 PsyDreads for some long range tank popping.

 

Will see how this works out for me.

[nurglez]

I used 2 today at 1500 points, both with incinerators, 1 with a great sword, great sword failed vs an ironclad, yet the fist one managed to kill it later, typical! I still need practice using them in my force, too used to a personal teleporter equipped one!

 

Of course, I could replace them with something else, but where's the fun in that? I enjoy the wound spam, and the theme that every model in my army has terminator armour, and all have ws 5 (apart from the wimpy inquisitor).

[Brother Tual]

True, The Daemon hammer might be better since you lose on I anyway

 

Isnt a DH in the hands of a DK still I4?

 

Doesnt being hit by a DH make your opponent I1?

 

Might be more value in this weapon if you intend to MC hunt...

[number6]

True, The Daemon hammer might be better since you lose on I anyway

 

Isnt a DH in the hands of a DK still I4?

 

Doesnt being hit by a DH make your opponent I1?

 

Might be more value in this weapon if you intend to MC hunt...

Indeed. :)