Parry

[Gentlemanloser]

Doh! :)

 

Hmmm, not so much of an auto include now then. Which is always good.

 

Purifier, NFF, 4A: 29 points.

Strike, NFF, 3A: 30 points.

 

/sadpanda

[breng77]

Remember though that assault weapons are only in the first round of combat, and that halberd weilding Purifiers will still win out due to cheaper points and killing first.

[RedemptionNL]

Remember though that assault weapons are only in the first round of combat, and that halberd weilding Purifiers will still win out due to cheaper points and killing first.

 

Where does it say it's only for the first round?

[Something Wycked]

The old 6th edition rumors stated it was only in the first round- I don't remember seeing it in this new batch.

[Gentlemanloser]

Halberds are also lessened in these rules by being able to Alpha Strike (I10 if enemy is already locked), but that is only for a single turn.

 

Also, our Pallies/GKT will be able to use Psycannons/Incinerators as secondary Weapons. But not Psilencers. Which still suck. :P

[Something Wycked]

But not Psilencers. Which still suck even more. ;)

Fixed. :D

[breng77]

In the copy of the leaked rules I have, it says that the assault weapon counts as a secondary weapon in the turn in which the model assaults. IF it has changed I have not seen it, but it is possible. Doen't really matter until, anything is official.

[RedemptionNL]

Halberds are also lessened in these rules by being able to Alpha Strike (I10 if enemy is already locked), but that is only for a single turn.

 

Also, our Pallies/GKT will be able to use Psycannons/Incinerators as secondary Weapons. But not Psilencers. Which still suck. :D

 

No, Relentess (which all terminator armoured models have) allows Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons to be used as secondary weapons as well. Nice for units like BA Death Company as well, who can use their bolters as a CCW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Psycannons have an Assault mode, and any weapon that has an assault mode can be used as a seconday weapon. It's just Strikes/Puri's have to give up thier primary weapon for one.

 

Incinerators are Assault Wepaons, aren't they?

 

In the copy of the leaked rules I have, it says that the assault weapon counts as a secondary weapon in the turn in which the model assaults.

 

That it does... :D

 

Edit 2:

 

Ah, Due to Relentless, Psilencers will be secondary CC weapons as well. /meh they still suck ;)

[RedemptionNL]

Yeah, so PAGK lose an attack when switching their stormbolter. What is amusing to me is that a terminator can technically claim a Cyclone Missile Launcher as a secondary close combat weapon. It makes no difference with picking the storm bolter, but it just tickles my funny bone to use a missile rack in close combat. :D

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, this is a little silly.

 

Sure, I can see non relentless mini's getting a single round extra attack out of thier Assault gun.

 

But in a mixed Relentless squad (like Termies), those with the Assault weapons only get thier secondary weapon for the first CC round, while the dude with the Heavy Weapon gets to beat face with it every round.

 

Silly really. The single round restriction needs to be lifted if you're relentless.

 

Edit: Or Rapid fire/Heavy wepaons restricted to the first round as well... Either/or.

[RedemptionNL]

The single round restriction isn't the current leak as far as I can tell.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's under Assault Weapons, Page 79;

 

assault weapons (and weapons

that have at least one fire mode with the assault

type) can be used as a secondary close combat

weapon in the turn a model assaults.

[RedemptionNL]

Ah, misread that one as in assault instead of the turn they assault, thanks. :rolleyes:

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, I did the same. :rolleyes:

[Drachnon]

Not sure if I have the same version as everyone else but this one states that games should be quicker under the new rules. Though from what I've read so far I highly doubt it will. From what I can tell they're trying to setup the basic rules so it allows for a bigger variety of special rules from the army codices which will make things only more complicated :rolleyes:.

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh they will be quicker. :lol:

 

"Right, my three PT NDKs charge these threee units out of thier Transports, as you'd only get flamered inside them and suffer more critical hits. Oh, I hit every mini in the unit with my oversided oval base. They all take a critical hit."

 

But seriosuly, I think having to look up all the 'support' moves is gonna bog the game down.

 

"Ah, he's got a flyer. Isn't there something where one of my dudes doesn't shoot, but in return I auto-pwn the plan with everyone having an AA mount?"

[jeffersonian000]

Doesn't Assaults now occur before Movement in 6th? That would mean that it'd be a very rare occasion when your gain both the added attacks from your assault weapon on an Assault and actually be able to fire it in the Shooting phase.

 

SJ

[ValourousHeart]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I found an odd contradiction with our NDK in the new rules.

 

Page 93 (72 of the PDF) talks about DCCW and MCCW (Monstrous CCW).

The DCCW says that it gives 2S... but for non-walkers it only gives S.

The MCCW is described as a weapon wielded by a MC and gives 2S and 2d6 vs armor.

The MCCW are described as axes, claws or even a really big sword.

 

Then on page 101 (80 of the PDF) describes MC, and lists that they all have the Monstrous special rule.

The monstrous special rules says that all models with this rule are ALWAYS equipped with a MCCW.

 

So what are we... and what are we armed with?

Are we a MC... and so automatically have a MCCW in the form of our fists?

Or are our fist DCCW and therefore we only get base S?

 

Obviously the hammer is S10, but what about the sword as it is a CCW wielded by a MC, wouldn't that make it a MCCW?

[Gentlemanloser]

As for the Doomfists;

 

If a dreadnought close combat

weapon is used by a model that is not a walker, it

has only Strength S.

 

 

Boo. sad.gif

 

OH it gets better. NDKs are *massively* nerfed.

 

Other MCs get "MC CCW" instead of Dreadnought ones. MC CCW give 2xS and the edxtra d6 pen.

 

So as it stands, the NDK lose the extra d6 pen, and only have normal Strength...

 

Suckage...

 

More Confusion. MCs come with the 'Monstrous' rule as standard, which gives them MC CCW. I suppose we'll have to wait and see whether our MC actually gets the 'Monstrous' Special Rule or not... And then, if so, what the heck Doomfists count as...

 

;)

 

Shall we have a chat about our CC weapon options if the rules stay as they are?

 

Our 4 options are (all with Stormbolters);

 

Nemesis Force Sword: +1I Save in CC, +1A

Nemesis Force Halberd: +2I

Nemesis Daemon Hammer: x2S, Always attack last, Stun

Nemesis Force Falchion, +1A, +1A

 

With Alpha Strike, the importance of I6 is also lessened. And on GKT/Pallies, should we stick Swords/Falchions with our Psycannons to make use of +1A every round? :/

[RedemptionNL]

And NFS and NFF can be used for Directed hits if wielded by the Squad Leader or an Independent Character, while NDH and NFH, being Coarse and Two-Handed respectively, cannot. Something to take into account when selecting a weapon for your justicar, as you can use the directed hits to 'snipe out' dangerous foes like that Powerfist Sergeant or an Ork Painboy.

[ValourousHeart]

@ gentlemanloser,

 

Yeah I get that a DCCW on a non walker is just S.

 

BUT... ALL MC come equipped with a MCCW.

SO... The NDK is a MC... Therefore it has a MCCW.

 

Not so cut and dry as you dismissal would indicate.

"ALL MC" seems to be an inclusive phrase.

[Gentlemanloser]

BUT... ALL MC come equipped with a MCCW.

 

If It has the 'Monstrous' Rule. Which we've no idea if it has or not.

 

Even *if* it has, there's no way it could use its MC CCW with either a Doomfist, Greatsword or Hammer. Which is fail on its own.

 

Not so cut and dry as you dismissal would indicate.

 

Well, the rules would seem to suggest that the Doomfist at least remains as a DCCW, otherwise there would be no need for the situplation about non Walkers using DCCW.

 

Unless the Greatsword or Hammer are made MC CCW in addition to thier standard properties, we lose out.

 

And the 'Codex Update' section didn't mention this.

 

So as stands, the NDK loses the extra d6 Pen.

 

And NFS and NFF can be used for Directed hits if wielded by the Squad Leader or an Independent Character, while NDH and NFH, being Coarse and Two-Handed respectively, cannot. Something to take into account when selecting a weapon for your justicar, as you can use the directed hits to 'snipe out' dangerous foes like that Powerfist Sergeant or an Ork Painboy.

 

Assuming that MC will allow a Force Weapon to keep the Parry rule, which Force Weapon would you choose for a Justicar/Paladin?

[RedemptionNL]

That the NDK has a Monstrous Close Combat Weapon seems clear cut indeed. What doesn't seem clear cut is whether or not his selection of weapons (Nemesis Doomfist, Daemon Hammer and Greatsword) uses the MCCW rules or not. If they don't, the NDK looses out on the double strenght, which, granted, he doesn't have currently. But more importantly, he would lose out on the S+2D6 armour penetration (which would matter for the re-roll of the Greatsword).

 

Edit: ninja'd. :)

[RedemptionNL]

If It has the 'Monstrous' Rule. Which we've no idea if it has or not.

All Monstrous Creatures have the Monstrous rule (pg 101), so that's not an issue as the NDK is clearly an MC. MCs also have Relentless, so that means that if you add a gun to the NDK, he gets an extra attack in close combat. I wouldn't be suprised if Relentless is changed to only grant the secondary weapon attack bonus on a turn you charged in the final version though.

 

Even *if* it has, there's no way it could use its MC CCW with either a Doomfist, Greatsword or Hammer. Which is fail on its own.

Aye, if it stays like this, it seems you'll have to choose between attacking with:

• S6 with extra attack with the Doomfists (free)
  
• S10 and 2d6 armour pen with the MCCW (free)
  
• S10 with Stun with the Daemon Hammer (upgrade)
  
• S6 with re-rolls with the Greatsword (upgrade)
  

Assuming that MC will allow a Force Weapon to keep the Parry rule, which Force Weapon would you choose for a Justicar/Paladin?

 

Well, currently I often give the Justicar a Daemon Hammer for the extra attack and/or ability to MC it. With the new rules I'd be tempted to get a Sword or a pair of Falchions actually. Especially for a Purifier, Paladin or Terminator Squad Leader, as you can just take a Hammer on another member and get the same number of attacks. As you create different armour groups that way, it's harder for your opponent to snipe out your squad leader with their Directed Hits, while you have more attacks to use with the Directed Hits rule yourself.

 

Also thinking about what to do with my usual Purifier squad wargear loadout, as they usually carry only Halberds, Hammers and Psycannons, neither of which can claim the extra attack for having an assault weapon as secondary weapon.