Captain Semper Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ok, not much - agreed. :) But it is tangential to the Minotaurs background... Aaaanyway I'm delving deeper in to the Minotaurs theme and I intend to post a Termie squad - with the appropriate markings once FW stuff arrives! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2970478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My fault entirely. Though the original post was fairly heavy on discussing the minotaurs in general, before then enquiring about the specific issue of uniform markings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2970479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Not your fault at all! The discussion was welcomed by me as OP and a lot of people thought it interesting enough to cobntribute! Back to topic then: Any ideas where I can find round shields for the Minotaur termies? The picture in IA10 got me salivating... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2971203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'd say either convert some of the Fantasy shields or, for the greek theme, I'd look at the Scribor Spartan Shields, though you may want to look at some of the other Spartan conversion bits from them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2971491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDuchen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I bought some of the Scibor shields and they are fantastic! Just make sure you buy the "big" spartan shields for your terminators; the regular sized spartan shields work for regular marines but are much too small for the 1st Company! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2972444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thx guys! I had a look at them and noticed that all of them have the letter Λ on them that will require some work to get rid of.. They sure look nice though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2972449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molloch Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The chevrons are kill-markings. Each 'line' is meant to represent a thousand kills, according to Alan Bligh. I don't know if these are meant to be just bods or kills 'of note' i.e other Astartes etc. In terms of the Ultra-hating, the link is between their actions during the Macharian Heresy, where they slap the two Chapters and virtually wipe the one out, and subsequently are roundly denounced by the Ultramarines and their Successors. I guess the point is they go, 'right then, here's a challenge'. And the Calgar bashing is a specific incident, not a general thing. There's a noted occasion where a Minotaurs Captain provokes a Captain from the (i think) Genesis Chapter by insulting the name of Marneus Calgar - it's not like they burn effigies of him or anything. The High Lords connection is a fascinating one - the point being that the High Lords are skating close to breaking Imperial law by having a Chapter that responds to their direct orders without question. The impression I always got is that individual commanders (of a certain rank) in individual theatres can petition a Chapter for assistance but due to the way the Imperium works (slowly) there's no centralised authorisation system for this. Ultimately the lesson of Horus was that one man shouldn't command as much power as he did, and here you have a group possessing theoretically all the power in the Imperium between them, who feasibly have held power for a long time and will do anything to keep power (because, y'know, it corrupts and all) controling a Chapter (maybe), actually the single most potent fighting force in the Imperium. The best thing about it all, as far as I'm concerned, is that it's suitably mysterious. Nothing is fully concrete, everything's hinted at and shadowy which is, frankly, just as 40k should be! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2974986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The chevrons are kill-markings. Each 'line' is meant to represent a thousand kills, according to Alan Bligh. I don't know if these are meant to be just bods or kills 'of note' i.e other Astartes etc. That is pretty cool. Did you talk to him IRL or is there an interview/notes floating around out on the web? I guess looking at your blog Red shoulder pads mean veteran? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2976546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The chevrons are kill-markings. Each 'line' is meant to represent a thousand kills, according to Alan Bligh. Possible. If he came up with it, then that's it, of course. Though I wonder why three Terminators each have one line (the fourth has no such markings at all) while the 4th Tactical Marine has four (or even five). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2976696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 First of all, thank you very much, Semper, glad you liked Moloc. I should point out that Minotaurs have no grudge against Marneus Calgar, from what I recall. They merely insulted and mocked him because they knew it'd tickle the fury-gland of an Ultramarines successor Chapter whose name I can't remember right now. Moloc's boys would've spit on El'Jonson's name if the other guys were Dark Angels successors. It's the Ultramarines that hate the Minotaurs, but it's essentially due to the beating they inflicted on the warring chapter. I wonder if Blood Angels hate Minotaurs too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2976711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 The chevrons are kill-markings. Each 'line' is meant to represent a thousand kills, according to Alan Bligh. Possible. If he came up with it, then that's it, of course. Though I wonder why three Terminators each have one line (the fourth has no such markings at all) while the 4th Tactical Marine has four (or even five). Well it might not be a compulsory marking... The more humble of Minotaurs might be not be so loud about it. Furthermore there might be a difference between the widths of the chevrons. The power armored ones have thinner chevrons while the Termies have a fat "Λ" which might mean 10k kills or "stopped counting after 5k kills". The Termie that does not show the "Λ" on the knee pad shows an intricate Greek-style carving... This might count for more than just killings... He is after all Stigmatum Majoris! First of all, thank you very much, Semper, glad you liked Moloc. Don't mention it! Look forward for more of your art! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2976908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molloch Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The chevrons are kill-markings. Each 'line' is meant to represent a thousand kills, according to Alan Bligh. Possible. If he came up with it, then that's it, of course. Though I wonder why three Terminators each have one line (the fourth has no such markings at all) while the 4th Tactical Marine has four (or even five). Well it might not be a compulsory marking... The more humble of Minotaurs might be not be so loud about it. Furthermore there might be a difference between the widths of the chevrons. The power armored ones have thinner chevrons while the Termies have a fat "Λ" which might mean 10k kills or "stopped counting after 5k kills". The Termie that does not show the "Λ" on the knee pad shows an intricate Greek-style carving... This might count for more than just killings... He is after all Stigmatum Majoris! And it's not actually reflected in the IA10 fluff or captions, so perhaps the idea was changed part-way through the process. I don't think, given their description as '...brooding and malign, far from the epitome of honour and righteousness...' and '...hold[ing] about them an aura of barely-restrained spite and malice...', that many of them are 'humble' in the manner you describe. Which is a good thing. I mean, Asterion in mythology didn't have much to be cheerful about, after all :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2981380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. Maybe "humble" was a poor choice of words... But it could be substituted with "indifferent" meaning those that do not care about the decorations but only for the actual killings... In any case it could be that the idea of kill marks was dropped at some point but the markings remained. So as we have nothing better to go on at the time I'll stick with that. Kill marks. Fat ones could mean "Congrats, you killed tons of enemies and you made it to the 1st Company" while the thin ones is just counting of thousands... Oh, and if a termie doesn't have a fat "Λ" in favor of some other nice decoration - no harm done! The TDA is evidence enough he made it to the 1st Company! :D Now how about the chevrons on vechicles? Kill marks too? Doubt it... As I recall there was a Land Raider, a Dread and a Thunderhawk? (don't have the book close right now). It could mean "Attached to 1st Company". But thenagain why having the marking twice? It never ends does it? :) And if by Asterion you mean the Minotaur, yeah, he was not a happy fellow... :D Edited January 31, 2012 by Captain Semper Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2981819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Assuming that these Minotaurs are an updated version (And this could be a totally different chapter.) of the red and yellow ones (god it took me forever to paint those...) I took the red chevrons as a nudge & a wink in that direction. I am however assuming that they are the same chapter. Now they might have been given some meaning as well I couldn't say but my thoughts would be kill markings, crusade markings or time in service markings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2981869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomselect Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Meh, looks like kill markings but probably REVERSED start with 5 lines, get a thousand kills and you go 4 lines, all the way to 1 line. do any better and you go STIGMATUM MAJORIS! and get a nice engraving instead. (looks like a ship's sail at the top of that kneepad) also what the hells the huge engraving on the side of the land raider? you can hardly make it out, its behind the 2 black chevrons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2982224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molloch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Fair enough. Maybe "humble" was a poor choice of words... But it could be substituted with "indifferent" meaning those that do not care about the decorations but only for the actual killings... In any case it could be that the idea of kill marks was dropped at some point but the markings remained. So as we have nothing better to go on at the time I'll stick with that. Kill marks. Fat ones could mean "Congrats, you killed tons of enemies and you made it to the 1st Company" while the thin ones is just counting of thousands... Oh, and if a termie doesn't have a fat "Λ" in favor of some other nice decoration - no harm done! The TDA is evidence enough he made it to the 1st Company! :P Now how about the chevrons on vechicles? Kill marks too? Doubt it... As I recall there was a Land Raider, a Dread and a Thunderhawk? (don't have the book close right now). It could mean "Attached to 1st Company". But thenagain why having the marking twice? It never ends does it? :) And if by Asterion you mean the Minotaur, yeah, he was not a happy fellow... :D I do indeed ;) the mention of Asterion Moloc sitting enthroned within the labyrinthine command bridge of their relic-flagship is a very nice little nod to that, I thought. Indifferent would make more sense. That fits with the IA10 descriptions, although I think that the description 'Stigmatum Majoris' is a fancy way of saying K/WIA. Or maybe it is indeed a battle honour, who knows. Maybe so - I got the impression that the vehicle chevrons were just a nod to the Lamda iconography... The FW guys were pretty clear that the idea was to show the variation and individuality possible for heraldry and icons within set Chapter colours and markings (I think this cropped up after a Games Day?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-2982725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigvard Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Just a little bit of ancient Greek Military history as this is clearly what the Minotaurs are heavily based upon. The inverted V on the shield of a Spartan warrior was the ancient greek letter L. This was to signify the region that Sparta was in: Lacedaemonia. Other Greek armies used the first letter of their city to prevent confusion in battle and allies being killed during the chaos. Obviously I would imagine this is slightly different in the Minotaurs chapter, but I was always a big fan of the Spartans as a race of warriors hence the knowledge. Of the back of that I am currently planning a Spartan Chapter to work on as a side project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245228-how-do-the-minotaurs-markings-work/page/2/#findComment-3402247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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