Hinti Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh my Good.................that saved my day.......I need a Beer, NOW! Celebrate!! :thanks: :thanks: Edit for myself: Hinti know your own Codex.......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Abby is screwed against the Vindicare, as long as your dice don't hate you and roll 1-3 on the to-wound roll :thanks: You can actually reroll your ones with grand strategy which increases your chances by 8% I believe (I actually kinda like this because I hate it when my assassin fails to wound especially of his 2+) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wouldn't celebrate too much; his Mark of Chaos Ascendent is a Special Rule (so the Shield Breaker won't work on it), and since that includes a Mark of Tzeentch it would still leave him with a 5++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hmmm thats right, BUT that Mark raises his InvSave form 5+ to 4+...........I think Shieldpenetratot still works, as the Bullet removes his Wargear Save. Benefit from Mark of Tzeentch does NOT help...... ????? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 mark of tzeentch improves your invulnerable save, and gives you a 5+ if you dont have one. So shield breaker would take away his 4+, but leave him with a 5+, at least thats how I think it would work... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The Point is, the Tzeentch Mark improves the InvSave provided by TermiArmour (Wording as per Rule in the CSM Dex).......No InvSave there (Shieldbreaker Ammo) no improvement to 4+............... Thanks GW............. for another clearly formulated Battle Situation... in my own Opinion ist clearly RAW and RAI as well.......and works as described.... Some RuleGod will correct me if I'm wrong........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It depends. If the Mark of Chaos Ascendant special rule says he has the marks of all the gods, and to refer to their entries for details etc, and the Mark of Tzeentch is classified as Wargear, then it, too, is removed by the Shield Breaker- since he is granted Wargear by a special rule. If the Mark of Tzeentch is not Wargear, then he keeps it, and the Shield Breaker round reduces his invulnerable save from 4 to 5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 from page 25 of the chaos codex. "Models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain +1 to their invulnerable save...if given to a model that does not normally have an invulnerable save, this mark confers an invulnerable save of 5+". And the mark of chaos ascendant (which gives him all the marks of chaos, so the mark of tzeentch also) is a special rule, not wargear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 from page 25 of the chaos codex. "Models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain +1 to their invulnerable save...if given to a model that does not normally have an invulnerable save, this mark confers an invulnerable save of 5+". And the mark of chaos ascendant (which gives him all the marks of chaos, so the mark of tzeentch also) is a special rule, not wargear. So he has a 4++ normally, due to his Terminator Armour (improved by the Mark of Tzeentch), but would still have 5++ if the shieldbreaker removes that, due to the Mark of Tzeentch. PS - Hinti..........what's........with........all........the.......gaps....? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And the mark of chaos ascendant (which gives him all the marks of chaos, so the mark of tzeentch also) is a special rule, not wargear. Yes, we have this part figured out :woot: I was asking whether or not the Marks are Wargear. If Chaos Ascendant is a special rule that says "... has all Marks," and Marks are Wargear, then the Mark of Tzeentch can be removed via a Shield Breaker round. If Marks are not Wargear, then Abby will be 4++ to 5++ after a Shield Breaker hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And the mark of chaos ascendant (which gives him all the marks of chaos, so the mark of tzeentch also) is a special rule, not wargear. Yes, we have this part figured out :cuss I was asking whether or not the Marks are Wargear. If Chaos Ascendant is a special rule that says "... has all Marks," and Marks are Wargear, then the Mark of Tzeentch can be removed via a Shield Breaker round. If Marks are not Wargear, then Abby will be 4++ to 5++ after a Shield Breaker hit. Marks are not wargear. They are Special Rules (C:CSM, Pg 25) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And the mark of chaos ascendant (which gives him all the marks of chaos, so the mark of tzeentch also) is a special rule, not wargear. Yes, we have this part figured out :cuss I was asking whether or not the Marks are Wargear. If Chaos Ascendant is a special rule that says "... has all Marks," and Marks are Wargear, then the Mark of Tzeentch can be removed via a Shield Breaker round. If Marks are not Wargear, then Abby will be 4++ to 5++ after a Shield Breaker hit. Marks are not wargear. They are Special Rules (C:CSM, Pg 25) Yep. Units that come with Marks included in their base profile, like cult troops, have their marks listed under Special Rules in their army list entries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That sounds understandable. Missed the part, that the Marks are NOT Wargear. In that Case, 5+ InvSave (only from the Mark) for Abbi, still enough I think. But 5+Inv is easyer to beat as 4+Inv........he will die even "faster". @Morollan: Sorry for the Gaps, if they are confusing you. They mean nothing, just a kind of Placeholder. Hinti Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Glad we've got that wrapped up ^_^ So yeah. Shield Breaker to bring him down to 5++, and then he'll be much easier to take down through any means unless your opponent's dice are on fire. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2975928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Still pretty sure you can torrent him to death at range without any fancy units or tricks. Eventually, enough 1's will get rolled. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Absolutely, it doesn’t even take that much shooting, if you rend with your Psycannons or bring some plasma it will go even faster. But come on! Really!? The biggets, badest, badasses in the galaxy, constructed for the sole purpose of spitting in the Eye of Terror and grinding the filth of Chaos under there boot, are going to back away and shoot?! Do as Barenone suggested and just rip his arms of, beat him to death with his own bloody limbs and don’t forget to step on his face as you walk over his corps to slaughter any lingering resistance . Remember that good girls go to heaven. Grey Knights go to hell and regroup! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Remember that good girls go to heaven. Grey Knights go to hell and regroup! Made my Day!!! :P :D :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Deathcult assassins backed by an inquisitor with rad grenades, fragile but hell of a lot cheaper and more efficient then throwing paladins at a character who can insta death them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There's always the Brotherhood Champion method, if you can charge him into abaddon's unit and get him in btb you'll have a good chance of removing him from play using the sacrifice, given how expensive Abaddon is it's a worthwhile sacrifice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 from page 25 of the chaos codex. "Models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain +1 to their invulnerable save...if given to a model that does not normally have an invulnerable save, this mark confers an invulnerable save of 5+" My issue here is that I could argue he does normally have an Invulnerable Save. For me this means he gets that +1 improvement, as per the rule, but then when the Shieldbreaker removes that the whole thing is nullified - he has already benefited from the Mark so should not recieve a second benefit from the same Mark. But that's just me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is the mark isn't removed from Abby, hence all it's effects are still active including the ability to confer a 5+ since he no longer has one on his terminator armour. Think of it as the Crux Terminatus or whatever equivilent Chaos termies would have is removed by the shield breaker but Tzeentchs favour is still protecting him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is the mark isn't removed from Abby, hence all it's effects are still active including the ability to confer a 5+ since he no longer has one on his terminator armour. Think of it as the Crux Terminatus or whatever equivilent Chaos termies would have is removed by the shield breaker but Tzeentchs favour is still protecting him. Ah but the wording, according to the above post, is "if given to a model that does not normally have.." and Abby does - it has just been removed by another in-game mechanic - thus why would he get that second benefit from it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Simply cause he no longer has and invuln, the effect of the Mark is constant so it isn't removed when hit by the shieldbreaker. reverting his invuln to 5+ as the marks effect is still active. But i'm guessing i'm not going to convince you and can see us spouting the same argument in a circle. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Simply cause he no longer has and invuln, the effect of the Mark is constant so it isn't removed when hit by the shieldbreaker.reverting his invuln to 5+ as the marks effect is still active. But i'm guessing i'm not going to convince you and can see us spouting the same argument in a circle. :tu: You probably won't convince me, no, it's just how I view this particular thing but I can understand how you'd come to your conclusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Simply cause he no longer has and invuln, the effect of the Mark is constant so it isn't removed when hit by the shieldbreaker.reverting his invuln to 5+ as the marks effect is still active. But i'm guessing i'm not going to convince you and can see us spouting the same argument in a circle. :tu: You probably won't convince me, no, it's just how I view this particular thing but I can understand how you'd come to your conclusion. How about "Does a model that has been hit by a shieldbreaker round normally have an invulnerable save from wargear?" In which case, Abby does not normally have an invulnerable save in these circumstances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/2/#findComment-2976808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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