nurglez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I could see this issue when I posted it. I can see both sides so its tricky. Might be worthwhile to transfer it to the OR forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2976810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Simply cause he no longer has and invuln, the effect of the Mark is constant so it isn't removed when hit by the shieldbreaker.reverting his invuln to 5+ as the marks effect is still active. But i'm guessing i'm not going to convince you and can see us spouting the same argument in a circle. ;) You probably won't convince me, no, it's just how I view this particular thing but I can understand how you'd come to your conclusion. How about "Does a model that has been hit by a shieldbreaker round normally have an invulnerable save from wargear?" In which case, Abby does not normally have an invulnerable save in these circumstances. Which misunderstands the point entirely. The Mark grants the +1, as stated and for the stated reason, thus the benefit of the Mark has been used. As the games is played out and the Shieldbreaker is targetted at Abaddon he would lose that Save and the +1 granted to it. The reason that he gets that +1 is that he normally possesses the Inv. Save - as per the Mark rule - but having been stripped of that benefit along with the Save as a whole why should he recieve what is basically a "second chance"? Thats my problem. Under normal circumstances he gets that described benefit, but being targetted by a Shieldbreaker is not a normal circumstance because it strips of a save that gets a bonus you lose that bonus as well - with me so far? Well, the Mark does not say that you get both; you get one or the other. So when you lose the bonus against that type of round, my opinion is you lose the benfit of the Mark too - nowhere does it say that if your Inv. Save is negated, you can take the +5. It's "if you don't normally.." and Abaddon does. That made sense as I typed it out, but it's late and Ive not long finished work so forgive me if it seems incoherent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There's a thread in OR for the MoT vs. Shield Breaker debate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryrich Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 this is funny, a GK player complaining about Chaos. LOL Abby and his Death star cost a Ton! Kill everything else (there may be what 2 lil teeny tiny units of marines) and avoid him. never thought id see this thread. LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wow! I turn m back for a few days and my thread has become a full blown tactica on slaying the beast! thanks to all! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefires Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I wouldn't engineer your army specifically just to fight Abbadon. As a former chaos player, and now a blood angel player that has faced off against grey knights here are some of my personal observations. I do not mean to undermine suggestions already put out but am trying to summarize them with a dash of salt and psycannon fire. It has been mentioned to use Castellian Crow to kill him off but also isn’t it crow that allows you to take psycannon spam squads? I cringe at the thought. I played a list like this with my Blood Angels Mech army and got tabled. There are only three ways Abbadon can get across the table, footslog, deepstrike, and a Landraider A Landraider is the only safe way in the codex to transport him across the table and let him assault. As said before, Pop the Landraider and then just shoot him and back off. Do not try and out combat Abbadon as this may be glorious but also a colossal waste of points, Abbadon is the meanest CC IC in the current edition IMO. Back off, out maneuver and shoot him, IF you want to kill him, BUT!!! The rest of the army is at a severe handicap as if you take an abbadon deathstar, you spend almost half your armys point on it. Abbadon: 275 pts Bone stock landraider: 220 Bone stock Thousand sons: 60+23*(4)+10(cheapest spell) = 162 stock terminators: 30 pts each (minimum 3) you are looking at at least 500 points, and I am being extremely conservative, as it is the demonic possession (20 pts) , marks and other wargear that you take on the accompanying squad that ramp up the points. My point being, 1.) Pop landraider and make abby footslog 2.) intice abby, back off shoot, back off and shoot etc… 3.) Slaughter the rest of his army because they will be at a major points disadvantage 4.) if he isn’t with troops, roll up to another objective, the most abby can do is contest, if he has troops kill ‘em. But he should be at a major disadvantage holding one objective with troops because all his eggs are in one basket. Hope not too many people felt I ripped off their post, as much of this was said already, summarized and my .02 cents was thrown in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 this is funny, a GK player complaining about Chaos. LOL Abby and his Death star cost a Ton! Kill everything else (there may be what 2 lil teeny tiny units of marines) and avoid him. never thought id see this thread. LOL Agreed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 this is funny, a GK player complaining about Chaos. LOL Abby and his Death star cost a Ton! Kill everything else (there may be what 2 lil teeny tiny units of marines) and avoid him. never thought id see this thread. LOL Agreed... Makes you wonder what he'll be like when Chaos Legions comes out later this year, rumours already say that the Chaos Legion troops will be on par with Grey Knights for points and lethality, although there is the rumour that Huron Blackheart will be the new Chosen of Chaos for 6th edition, so maybe Abaddon will be easier to kill. You can take comfort in that as Huron rips your HQ to pieces and barbeques the remains with his giant hand flame. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2977742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah... I just remembered that I heard Paladins mentioned... If you think about it, paladins don't really bring much offensive capability for the points you spend on them. That's probably at the root of the problem, because Abadabadab and friends requires a lot of firepower to take down, firepower that is easily supplied by PAGKs. Nothing short of an equivalent points worth of TH/SS terminators can really stand a good chance of beating Abadabadab and friends in close combat (and that's only because of the 3+ invuls). Use the best strength of GKs (tactical versatility) to your advantage, and hit Abadabadab & Friends where they are weakest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2978338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ^^ One more way (one of many) die remove this Looooooser from the Game........ Cheapest would be Crowe (or a simple Seneschal).......? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245375-how-do-you-kill-abaddon-the-despoiler/page/3/#findComment-2978418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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