Something Wycked Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special rules or wargear (other than shooting)?A: No. My first thought when reading this was Coteaz' "I've Been Expecting You" rule- since its a special rule and isn't shooting. But after pondering a minute, Coteaz' rule doesn't affect the enemy unit directly- the player doesn't trace LoS from the fire point to the target to see if IBEY can be used on it. The rule permits a shooting attack if the range and LoS requirements are met, so I don't think the FAQ answer disallows IBEY from being used while inside a transport. It seems apparent that Psychic Shooting Attacks can be used, because they're shooting. So my real question for this thread is, what is restricted by this FAQ answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am told Psychic battle squads are restricted by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Doesn't the Traveler a have power that works that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am told Psychic battle squads are restricted by this. Isn't Weaken Resolve a shooting attack, or is it a psychic power used in the Shooting Phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am told Psychic battle squads are restricted by this. Isn't Weaken Resolve a shooting attack, or is it a psychic power used in the Shooting Phase? I do not have access to the IG codex at this time, I only posted what someone else told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Google tells me it's a power used in the Shooting phase. So you are correct, good sir! 'This power is used during the Psyker Battle Squad's shooting phase. Choose one enemy unit within 36" and line of sight of the Psyker Battle Squad. For the remainder of the turn, the enemy unit's Leadership is reduced by the number of Sanctioned Psykers in the unit utilising the power (to a minimum of 2)' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Weaken Resolve: The psykers reach out With their minds evoking irrational terror in the minds of their foes. This Power is used during the Psyker Battle Squads Shooting phase. Choose one enemy unit within 36" and line of sight of the Psyker Battle Squad. For the remainder of the turn the enemy unit's Leadership is reduced by the number of Sanctioned Psykers in the unit utilising the power (to a minimum of 2). So it looks like it's a non-Shooting Psychic power which requires LoS, so no it shouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Weird. According to how it's written in the book, this FAQ answer completely contradicts it. "A fire point is a hatch or gun slit from which one or more passengers inside the vehicle can fire (or use a psychic power)." Note, not a psychic shooting power, just any power whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 But the FAQ references only "special rules" and "wargear"; do "psychic powers" fall into that category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That's a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hmm, good points Seahawk & Something Wycked - so what "special powers" are there that require line of sight that aren't Shooting attacks or Psychic powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Imperial Guard orders "Bring it Down!" and "Fire on my Target!" They both require the officer to have LOS to the target, so if he's in a chimera they can't issue it. However, the Chimera rules do have this covered by saying "Measure range and LOS from any point of the chimera's hull." That's all I can really find that this affects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Do IG orders in general require LoS to the unit receiving the order? The orders do qualify as a "special rule." Though I suppose that question is moot, as you point out the Chimera's specific rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, in general they do not need LOS, just the ones I poined out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 But the FAQ references only "special rules" and "wargear"; do "psychic powers" fall into that category? Psychic powers are not affected by this FAQ, because they already have a FAQ Q: Can a model use a psychic power that is not aPsychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport vehicle? (p50) A: Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will count as one model shooting through that fire point if the power is used in the Shooting phase). If the psychic power does not require line of sight and has a range or an area of effect that is normally measured from the model using it, these are measured from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking section on page 66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The Travellers mind in the machine (think you mean that) is a special ability, so by this FAQ he cant use it. Psychic shooting attacks are that, shooting attacks and thus can use it from a firepoint(some Eldar psy powers dont require LoS and as per codex can stil use it) IG special commands can be used from within a Chimera to a unit outside the Chimera, this is detailed in imperial guard dex and as we all know, codex overrules rule book (the faq was for the rulebook so thats over ruled by the codex) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 quick question: do open-topped vehicles count as having fire points? im aware that everyone inside can fire, just not sure on the wording in the BRB. if it doesn't say they have fire points, then this faq doesn't apply to the traveller either: necron vehicles are open topped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 quick question: do open-topped vehicles count as having fire points? im aware that everyone inside can fire, just not sure on the wording in the BRB. if it doesn't say they have fire points, then this faq doesn't apply to the traveller either: necron vehicles are open topped Open-topped vehicles do not have Fire Points. (BRB, Pg.70) Although, humorously enough, Open-topped only allows embarked models to fire - making no mention of using Psychic Powers as the Fire Points rule does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 So by RAW, Open Topped vehicles only allow embarked models to shoot, and they may not use Special Rules from inside the Open Topped vehicle. And by the FAQ that Seattle posted, they may only use Psychic Powers that do not require LoS, because it specifies that any Psychic Power requiring LoS needs to use the vehicle's Fire Points, which the Open Topped vehicle doesn't have. :D Terrible and funny at the same time. So Traveler's Mind in the Machine requires LoS to the target? If so, it would seem this is affected by the OP FAQ answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 To be fair, the open topped rules state that they have no 'specific' fire points, not that they have no fire points at all. I believe they still follow the general fire point rules ( with the open topped changes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 its actually not a psychic power, just a special ability. so the bit about psychic powers needing los and such wouldn't apply here, just to clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes , and thats the point. We are discussing the new FAQ that stops embarked units from using special powers and wargear that need LOS. Shooting and psychic powers are allowed to be used from firing points (or open topped)by embarked units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think I'm missing the point of this FAQ entirely; what rule(s) does it actually address? Just those IG abilities listed above? What else is there that is not a shooting attack but requires LOS? Marker lights? (I think that flies as shooting, no?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Honestly, it will be interesting to try and come up with a list of Special Rules and Wargear that 1. are not shooting or Psychic Powers and 2. require LoS to function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falldown Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There are a bunch in the Necron codex. I will post them when I get home if they are not up here at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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