barenone Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My brother and I have decided to do a little match where his Sanguinor and sanguanary squad will go against my Draigo with his paladins. My paladins will be set up as banner with his storm bolter, a apothacary, a warding staff with his storm bolter, the other 2 are up in the air on what I should take. he will most likely be getting the assualt because of the mobility of his squad so i was going to use grand strategy to have the counter-attack. Im not sure how is guard will be set up but i believe he will add as much as he can towards getting through my nasty armour saves. So I was wondering if you guys could help me decide what I should take my other 2 pallys as and what you think my chances are? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sanguinary Guard all have 2 handed master-crafted power weapons; don't bother with the Apothecary. Throw Halberds on all of your Pallies (except the Banner bearer) and give 2 of them Psycannons. Best case scenario, you'll get 2 turns of shooting before he gets the charge off, and he won't have much left to charge you with. Worst case scenario, you'll get 12 Halberd attacks (or 16 attacks if you get Counter Attack off) and Draigo's attacks at I5 on him before the Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard (all I4, IIRC) get to swing. You also have essentially twice the wounds he has on the table. In other words, dice permitting, you're going to stomp his guts out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 That sounds like it would work beautifuly, seeing as how there no point limit i think I will have to mastercraft said halberds. OK thanks a bunch wiked, Ill post a battle report when we have our little duel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sanguinor is actually I 6, and since he has Furious Charge he's likely to be hitting at I 7. That matter aside, I'll second Wycked on dropping the Apothecary, and taking plenty of halberds to hit the Sanguinary Guard before they get a chance to attack in cc. Since Sanguinary Guard have no invulnerable save, killing them in cc shouldn't be very hard. With any luck, between I 6 Halberds and the boost from two Hammerhands, you should easily kill his Sang. Guard before they get to swing, and after that it's just a matter of wearing down the Sanguinor. Taking Psycannons for some long-range dakka is a good move; with any luck, you'll score a couple kills before they even have a chance to shoot you with their shorter-ranged weapons, especially if your opponent takes Infernus Pistols in hopes of tagging Instant Death wounds on your Paladins (allocate as many of those as possible on Draigo the EW). Odds are your opponent will try to allocate any rends your psycannons get onto Sanguinor, but you could get lucky and rend enough to beat his ability to use wound allocation, and even a 2+ armor save fails sometimes. Since you've got a shooting/range advantage, spend every turn backing up to maximize the amount of time you can spend delivering dakka to the enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Odds are your opponent will try to allocate any rends your psycannons get onto Sanguinor I thought the Sanguinor wasn't an Independent character. He kind of just runs out to do his own thing, but still gives +1 attack within an area, and can be hidden behind the squad for a cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I thought the Sanguinor wasn't an Independent character. He kind of just runs out to do his own thing, but still gives +1 attack within an area, and can be hidden behind the squad for a cover save. Yep. Sanguinor is not an IC and cannot be attached to a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I thought the Sanguinor wasn't an Independent character. He kind of just runs out to do his own thing, but still gives +1 attack within an area, and can be hidden behind the squad for a cover save. Yep. Sanguinor is not an IC and cannot be attached to a unit. Yeah, I goofed there. In any case, not being able to allocate rending psycannon shots onto a model with an invulnerable save makes shooting the Sang. Guard to death even easier Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Personally, I'd shoot down the Sanguinor- its the only model that can strike before the Halberds. Take him out and let the Sanguinary Guard impale themselves on the Halberds. The 16 Halberd attacks (assuming Hammerhand x2) have a near 100% chance to wipe out the Sanguinary Guard to a man before combat resolution. I forget if the Sanguinor has 2+/3++ or 3+/4++, but either way there's a half decent chance to down him in 1 or 2 shooting phases with 2 Psycannons and 4 Stormbolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ummmm... are there any limits to this matchup, because the above stated no points limit makes this an Auto-win to paladins (who can take a 10 man squad.) IF we are sticking to 5 man squads, the Banner + psycannons + Halberds, is a good setup. Sanguinar is 2+/3++, and should be target priority in shooting for you as he is the only model that strikes at the same time or before you, and the only model in his group that has an invul save. He also grants the Sanguinary guard +1 attack. Given the stats and abilities of both units this is an easy win for the paladins baring poor rolling. SO we have the paladins + draigo weighing in at 615. As far as I can tell the best set up for him is actually Sanguinary Guard 5 Infernus pistols 5 Power fists Chapter Banner Death masks and Sanguinar so he would be at 630. Because if some how you epicly fail he will instant death a bunch of guys. In close combat he stands no chance against your full squad, now if he can kill a couple of guys with infernus pistols, put the sanguinar on Draigo, have you fail the death mask roll, then he actually stands a chance by hitting you with 3ish powerfists with 5 attacks each. SO realisitically there is no way with sanguinary guard that he should win this fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even if this scenrio is based on points the paladins will win every time. If you are clever you should not even loose a single model. 5 paladins + Draigo against equal points of sang guard and sanguinor. take 2 psycannons and a banner all halberds where you can. You should be able to shoot down the sanguinor before he gets there and when the I4 sang guard hit the paladins they will die as you can go to str 6 and will hit on 3's and kill on 2's. even if 1 or 2 somehow survive through wound allocation you should haveno chance to even lose a model. The aim for this matchup is not to lose a model, it shouldn't be hard to do Look at it this way. Both Draigo and Paladins are used in competetive play. Both the sanguinor and sang guard are not. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 It is 5 models that was established, the board we arer playing on is rather large so im thinking if it goes well I can get 3 shooting phases in before he gets to me. Would be able to use The Sanguinor's Blessing on his squad? im not sure if they have a seargent. In anycase I will be doing the halberds and 2 psycannons. with the banner. If I cannot take out the sanguiner by the time close combat happens I am a bit worried though beacuse he will be hitting hard and alot of times. But I should have him before then. As for the sanguanary guard hell I took them out before with a squad of intercepters. You guys are right they should be easy to take out after the big guy gets his wings cut. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2969928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 No the sanguinairy guard doesn't have a sergeant so his blessing will be wasted, he can get the ability to reroll to hit and wound against Draigo but you can just keep Draigo in the second row allowing you to choose where he goes in close combat. I have to say I don't see why you bother with this duel, the result is so obvious that you might want to try something different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 honestly I think Dante + sanguinary guard would fair better if for no other reason that you could deepstrike in and fire 6 Infernus pistols before you fight in hand to hand, which means you could get lucky and kill 5 paladins, then try to beat up draigo with the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well I bother with it beacuse we wanted to see who would win between the sanguiner and draigo, the former actually better stat wise. We through the squad in as a quote un quote bodyguard just for the hell of it. I am glad we di beacuse without the pallys I am sure I would have been obliterated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm not sure about that Sanguinar hits on 3s (I think) and wounds on 3s(on the charge, 4s after that, and re-rolls both, against Draigos 3++ save Draigo hits on 4s and wounds (likely) on 2s, against the Sanguinars 3++ Sanguinar Strikes first with more attacks, but has fewer wounds. Sanguinar has the Advantage due to re-rolling wounds, but at least it makes for a decent fight, as soon as you throw paladins into the mix, the fight is not close. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sanguinar hits on 3s (I think) and wounds on 3s(on the charge, 4s after that, and re-rolls both, against Draigos 3++ save Draigo is S5 T5. Isn't the Sanguinor S5 on the charge? He'd wound on 4's the turn he charges and then 5's after that. Draigo is a beast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sanguinar is S5 base, so 6 on the charge. If it were not for the fact that he cannot join a squad he is quite the beast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Shows you how long its been since I read by BA codex :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well I won, I was even nice and let him assualt with his sanguiner even after I already killed him in shooting. so with his full squad he assualted me. the sanguiner dealed 2 wounds to my pallys. I then turned around and fineshed his sanguiner off using 2 pallys and the other 3 pallys took out a single sanguinary guard. this was followed by his guard swinging at the same time as his remaining guard. I got some horrible dice doing nothing with draigo and he used his remaining 4 guard to kill draigo. next assualt I finished them off with my 5 pallys to call it game. You guys are right he didnt stand a chance and it was sheer dumb luck that made me lose draigo. even draigon couldnt take 20 hits with master crafted force weapons lol. Thanks for the help everyone. I will make sure to rub it in his face untill his space vampires actually beat me (as if that would ever happen) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Wow, your dice really hated those 3 pallies in the first round ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 tell me about it, I am about top melt my lucky dice into a lucky coaster... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2970810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 which is why I said he should have run all fists on his unit (he still by odds should have lost), but those 4 Sanguinary guard with like 4-5 power fist hits each, would have killed all of your paladins, and he likely would have won at that point. I.e. when odds say you should lose go for a set-up that gives you the best chance if your opponents dice are terrible (i.e. if you live to strike make sure you can kill) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2971292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 well i do swing first though, he put so much towards draigo my pallys were not being touched. So i had them all to swing before his guard could, fist or no fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2971777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Not to rain on your parade, but there really is no fun in rubbing it in. Those Angels didn't stand a chance, try repeating the fight with the a full DC squad, if you want your pallies to have a challenge ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2972597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barenone Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 actually we have done that, his feel no pain helped him but in the end he didnt last. I lost 2 pallys to his 10 dk. He did have crap for luke on his rolls. But he also had a nice one with his 2 squads of normal tacticle marines taking out my dread and only losing 4 guys. So ya our dice eigther hate us or like us. No middle there lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245486-duel/#findComment-2972783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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