Libby vs. Reclusiarch

[DAwarrior43]

Hello All,

 

I have a tourney this weekend and I am trying to decide on my HQ and as my title states it is for who will lead my squad of 7 death company with 2 power weapons, power fist and a thunder hammer. They will be flying in a stormraven. So do I go with unleash rage or litanies of hate? the libby would save me 30 points and the re-rolls can be used every turn. Any advice?

 

DA

[JamesI]

In most scenarios I would vote Librarian.

 

In this one, Reclusiarch for the reroll to wound as well on the charge.

[Black_Sky]

I'm with JamesI in this regard.

[Bonzi]

Take a Reclusiarch and you could drop a power weapon off the DC without a drop in effectiveness vs libby squad. 15 points is worth the reroll to hit and wound.

[DAwarrior43]

All,

 

Thanks for the replies. I think my hesitation is from in a couple of play test games where I was charged they felt a little lack luster and I feel that they could have benefited more in the long run from the prefered enemy.

 

DA

[I am Legion]

I understand for whatever reason you are taking only 7 DC. I recommend 10. The reason is, even when carried in a SR, once combat occurs, you will lose some, I know, it happened to me VS genestealers (assuming you are making an all-around army). they have the higher initiative, so you can lose a few people very quickly rendering the squad useless once they reach 5. The Reclusiarch in just about every game is the number 1 choice for command, and it has been for many editions. I've tried librarians, and they never seem to do much, I mean yeah Blood lance is awesome (even though we had to roll to hit with it for a few month), but in reality the librarian gets killed very quickly in close combat, and in the end doesnt always make back his points. in fact my sanguinary priest makes more points back than he does on average.

Reclusiarch brings alot more to the table especially in a controlled environment (Storm Raven or Land Raider) because you control when they charge, unless something happens, hopefully you give your opponent more pressing issues to fire at, like drop pods with dreads, or scouting baal predators. Our army is made for surprise and it works well that way but thats another issue for another day. The reclusiarch has a 4++ save to start. 1 extra wound, makes a huge differance to any unit on the charge, and is a good support for the squad because he can take more hit than the librarian. And it's already mentioned but yeah the DC reroll to wound, something that's very rare in 40k these days. he alone will carry that DC, and if he does split he can take heavy weapon fire, something that the librarian cant when he splits.

 

I dont know if that helps, but Librarians arnt that great in the grand scheme, they are simply cheap HQs. Others will fight me on this, but in my experience with making all rounder armies, other armies have far superior HQs to our librarians, and that psychic null...have you ever faced a nid army. that ward doesnt make much differance in the end because there is so much to stop, same with eldar for that matter, same with grey knights...

[AstraWlad]

Libby with Termies, Reclusiarch with DC -- this is a way to go from my point of view. It's just too good to have those "to wound" AND "to hit" rerolls at the same time to not use it ;).

[Morollan]

I dont know if that helps, but Librarians arnt that great in the grand scheme, they are simply cheap HQs. Others will fight me on this, but in my experience with making all rounder armies, other armies have far superior HQs to our librarians, and that psychic null...have you ever faced a nid army. that ward doesnt make much differance in the end because there is so much to stop, same with eldar for that matter, same with grey knights...

 

Don't disagree about choosing the Reclusiarch over the Librarian specifically for the Death Company but in general I find the Librarian to be a far superior HQ choice. Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are truly excellent powers, far more so than Blood Lance IMO, and the Psychic Hood is absolutely golden. Has saved my bacon on more occasions than I care to name. Granted the Librarian is less survivable unless you stick him in Terminator Armour with a Storm Shield, but he has far more utility.

 

In summary; for DC pick the Reclusiarch. For everything else pick the Librarian.

[Bonzi]

In summary; for DC pick the Reclusiarch. For everything else pick the Librarian.

 

I agree with you that the Libby has a lot more utility, but I've actually been hugely successful with a Reclusiarch outside of elite CC units. In my army I throw one into a unit of standard RAS with a Sanguinary Priest with a power weapon. The Priest and the Reclusiarch make the unit a beast in close combat on the charge and the ablative wounds are far cheaper with RAS than with DC, Sang Guard or Terminators.

 

The Reclusiarchs higher initiative, WS and invulnerable save make him far better in drawn out combats whereas every time I get a libby into close combat he eats a power fist in the first round of CC. Unleash Rage is great but it can be said that are librarians are pretty weak when they get into the CC to use the power. I prefer the unstoppable nature of the Reclusiarch, his power may be more limited but its more useful in CC, he is more effective in CC and it can't be blocked by any psychic defense.

[Demoulius]

if you want an hq specicly to lead your DC take the chapy! dont get me wrong, librarians are very good as well but a charge with a liby (or lemartes!!!) nearby is nothing short of brutal!

 

rerolling to hits AND to wounds? yes please! ;) just make sure that youre guarranteed to get the charge off. If your deploying them from a stormraven that can go either way. It can get shot down and you might end up getting charged or you will be charging by turn 2 :(

[DAwarrior43]

Awesome well thanks for the replies everyone. I'm gonna run the Reclusiarch on Saturday, I'll let you know everything the squad munches through!

[Morollan]

The Reclusiarchs higher initiative, WS and invulnerable save make him far better in drawn out combats whereas every time I get a libby into close combat he eats a power fist in the first round of CC.

 

Presumably that's only if you get charged, in which case the Reclusiarch would be less effective anyway as you wouldn't get to reroll misses. If you're doing the charging then just make sure you don't position your IC in base to base with a power fist!

[Morticon]

In summary; for DC pick the Reclusiarch. For everything else pick the Librarian.

... whereas every time I get a libby into close combat he eats a power fist in the first round of CC.

 

There is a large chance that this is poor tactics from you, matey!

If you're charging, you ensure that your IC hits a non-PF model and your other models are free to engage the PF.

If you're being charged, you make sure that your IC is second rank, so when he piles in, he does it to avoid the PF if poss.

[Zhukov]

There is a large chance that this is poor tactics from you, matey!

If you're charging, you ensure that your IC hits a non-PF model and your other models are free to engage the PF.

If you're being charged, you make sure that your IC is second rank, so when he piles in, he does it to avoid the PF if poss.

True, but the same goes for the oppenent his powerfist guy.

[Demoulius]

There is a large chance that this is poor tactics from you, matey!

If you're charging, you ensure that your IC hits a non-PF model and your other models are free to engage the PF.

If you're being charged, you make sure that your IC is second rank, so when he piles in, he does it to avoid the PF if poss.

True, but the same goes for the oppenent his powerfist guy.

if he keeps his PF second rank it can still attack, an IC in a second rank cannot. Ive never run into much trouble avoiding the things though...

 

also not that a 10 man RAS with PF, attached SP and liby (a squad that I used) can munch through most units on their own. I can inmagine a DC squad can do pretty much the same :D a liby has no invul save and the chapy has a 4+ invul save.

 

Depending on how well your squad is within charge range you might be able to tie up his powerfist sarg. the winner goes first so if thats you and you have other models aside from the IC make sure that his PF is tied up by a member of your squad before moving your IC ^_^

 

plenty of ways to keep them safe in combat tbh...

[knife&fork]

Reclusiarch is overcosted IMHO. Not as bad as the captain, but not worth it when we have the elite chaplains for 30 pts less. Or lemartes for that matter.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Reclusiarch is overcosted IMHO. Not as bad as the captain, but not worth it when we have the elite chaplains for 30 pts less. Or lemartes for that matter.

Lemartes has a jump pack, and talking overpriced, Death Co. with jpacks are the most overpriced thing in the codex. Unless you're taking your DC in a Stormraven, Lemartes isn't an option. Of course if they are in said Raven... well, I've taken Lemmy several times.

The Elite Chaplain is substantially weaker than the Reclusiarch in combat, for 30 points you get an extra wound, initiative, BS and attack. If you're like me, and you sometimes like to throw a Power Fist on the Reclusiarch because you happen to have the awesome model, that extra attack is quite valuable.

[SnorriSnorrison]

If I was to choose, I'd go for the Reclusiarch. Librarians are - sorry for those who like them - weak. They are a two-wound marine with psychic powers, nothing more, nothing less. They don't do too well on the frontline, and especially not in melee - but that's where you want your DC. You want them to tear off arms, legs, rip through torsi, shatter bones and slice through flesh, and the Reclusiarch's boni are much better than the Librarian's for that task IMHO.

 

Also, your psychic defense will be a subject to the Rage USR, and clever opponents can use this to bait it away(not too far though, 24" is quite a huge area). This becomes a problem against psycher-heavy armies or, in the worst case, armies that can counterattack your DC and wipe it off the table(and your Libby as well...).

 

Lemartes is not even in comparison here...he's just a beast. That is all.

 

 

As said before...

Reclusiarch: DC

Librarian: Anything else

 

 

Snorri

[knife&fork]

Reclusiarch is overcosted IMHO. Not as bad as the captain, but not worth it when we have the elite chaplains for 30 pts less. Or lemartes for that matter.

Lemartes has a jump pack, and talking overpriced, Death Co. with jpacks are the most overpriced thing in the codex. Unless you're taking your DC in a Stormraven, Lemartes isn't an option. Of course if they are in said Raven... well, I've taken Lemmy several times.

The Elite Chaplain is substantially weaker than the Reclusiarch in combat, for 30 points you get an extra wound, initiative, BS and attack. If you're like me, and you sometimes like to throw a Power Fist on the Reclusiarch because you happen to have the awesome model, that extra attack is quite valuable.

 

I've taken a liking to DC with jump packs. With a larger unit you can usually mitigate the effects of rage, and kiting a unit with a 12" move is a lot harder than one with 6".

 

If we primarily take the chaplain for the rerolls then the slight buffs in stats don't matter that much to the damage output of the squad as a whole. At least not enough to make up for the difference in price imho. Plus layering you get to attacks with different I.

 

As for myself I wouldn't take neither chaplain nor reclusiarch, save the points for something else. If it's a rhino mounted DC they just get a PF or TH, with JPs you take Lemartes. A libby is always good to have, and can deploy (or change to) any unit depending on what you need for a particular game. He might not be as survivable or quite the CC powerhouse as the chaplains, but DC in my experience lack more on the defense (shield helps here) than on the offense.

[Fortunate Son]

I've been fielding Death Company for ages.

I love to use a Reclusiarch with mine.

 

There's something special about a 10-man squad being able to put out 28 regular, 5 power weapon, and 6 powerfist attacks on the charge (plus rerolls)

That's a rhino (or LR) full of punishment.

I realize that's a good chunk of points, but it's always been worth it.

 

Librarians are nice, but for the DC, bring a Reclusiarch.

[DAwarrior43]

Well the DC and the Reclusiarch wrecked house at the tourney. Game one they took out 20 Necron warriors, 10 Immortals, the storm lord SC, the command barge thing. Game 2 which was my only loss I had the initiative stolen and the other player was running purifier spam with three psyflemen dreadnoughts. They footslogged and got shot up. They did take out a squad of purifiers. The last game versus nids I killed 10 Genestealers, myscetic spore, and 3 Zoanthropes. I ended up taking third place.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Well the DC and the Reclusiarch wrecked house at the tourney. Game one they took out 20 Necron warriors, 10 Immortals, the storm lord SC, the command barge thing. Game 2 which was my only loss I had the initiative stolen and the other player was running purifier spam with three psyflemen dreadnoughts. They footslogged and got shot up. They did take out a squad of purifiers. The last game versus nids I killed 10 Genestealers, myscetic spore, and 3 Zoanthropes. I ended up taking third place.

What does your DC squad look like? What's it in? How do you use them?

I'd like to field more effective DC.

[DAwarrior43]

I run them 8 strong with the attached Reclusiarch. They have 2 power weapons and 2 power fists. I sprinkle in bolters on normal guys for wound allocation shenanigans. They ride in a stormraven with a death company dreadnought.

[Korloth Darkwolf]

My usual set up is the following:

 

Reclusiarch

8 DC (no upgrades)

Stormraven (TLAC, Typhoon, Hurricane Sponsons, EA)

DC Dread (Talons, H.Flamer)

 

It's a large chunk of my army at 1500 points and I sometimes feel the lack of PW attacks on the DC but in the main this lot eats most things in my local group.

 

I love DC and they always roll with a Reclusiarch.