Two HQ's with sternguards viable?

[Jaigo]

Just something I wanted you lot to shoot at.

 

Friday I will battle some traitor marines.

So I will have 2 tactical squads. Bringing one with Melta / multimelta / combimelta and the

other Plasmagun / ML (don't have spare plasma cannons) and combi plasma

These will be in a rhino

 

Also I planned on bringer in terminators.

And a 10 man devastator squad with 4 plasma cannons.

 

As my main punch I'm going for a 10 man Sternguard squad. And to protect them I planned on my Libririan to go along. With SS and epistolary upgrade. So I can use Gate of infinity and use the Forcedome.

Also, I would love to use a captain with Lysander's profile for the Bolter drill. But it seems like overkill to put this unit together like this. But protected against plasma's with the dome and the bolter drill will make then dangerous as hell.

 

I could let Lysander like dude go with the terminators, or just leave it out and try an Vernable dreadnought. Always wanted to see if that is worth the points, with multimelta, heavy flamer, extra armor on top of that. Still I am afraid it will be blasted apart in no time.

 

So...... shooting phase starts

[DarkGuard]

That's a massive amount of points you're putting into a unit that could die of a Deep Strike mishap, especially when you put Lysander in there. Furthermore, I'm not too sure about Force Dome and you're passing out on Null Zone, which is vital against Terminators, HQs, and Thousand Sons etc. Personally, I'd stick with an 8 man squad in a Rhino with Null Zone and Gate and Libby, and only do the fancy teleporting when you absolutely have to.

 

Also, for your Tactical squads I'd swap the MM and ML around, when are ever going to get a chance to fire both the MM and the meltagun? Plasma guns match up better with MMs due to range, with meltagun squads it's better go with something like a ML or PC to give them some range and option to combat squad.

[Jaigo]

Also, for your Tactical squads I'd swap the MM and ML around, when are ever going to get a chance to fire both the MM and the meltagun? Plasma guns match up better with MMs due to range, with meltagun squads it's better go with something like a ML or PC to give them some range and option to combat squad.

 

Ah ok, thanks for the tip.

 

As I was thinking, with two HQ's. Rhino wasn't an option, so to get around. Gate looked like an option.

Plus 2 SS seemed like a good bonus along with the force dome.

 

When taking 8 sternguards. Nullzone and Forcedome would be grand if I take the rhino. Can't look it up now if its both an shooting phase power.

 

I think I will use Lysander to boost those Stormbolters of the terminators, and then assault with the fists and hammer. Using one Dreadnought never worked for me before.

[DarkGuard]

When you're in a Rhino force dome is not the best power to take, as the Rhino protects. Typically Avenger is better as it increases the damage output of the squad. IMO a 5++ isn't massive, it can be handy, but it isn't reliable. If it's worked for you in the past then take it, but don't be overly reliant or expectant on it.

[Jaigo]

I assumed the 5+ saved would give me an edge to survive some plasma attacks.

 

In fact, I thought this up before reading your tactical analysis.

 

Without Lysander and reducing the troop by 2, I can add combi weapons. I'll try the Lib with nulzone and gate to start off with.

[DarkGuard]

Dome does help with mitigating plasma damage, but not that much in my experience. You'll be better of trying to find cover and using that, which is a better save anyway.

 

And definitely, if you can get combis in that'll increase their performance as they can now be better at taking down infantry (not really needed) or better against TEQ, MEQ, MCs and tanks. Combi-meltas are the best for me, but I can see an argument for combi-plasmas. I never take combi-flamers, I'd much rather take a heavy flamer instead of two combi-flamers, more powerful, and it's one of the things I'd give up special ammo for in a frontline squad (the other thing possibly being melta).

 

Of course, as my article said 10 man Sternguard squads do belong in Drop Pods, as you can load them up with melta and knock out two tanks when you drop, or you do half melta, half flamer, and threaten both tanks and infantry. But it's necessary, and 8 men in a Pod will do fine, and if you weren't going to split them, be more points efficient in the long run.

[Kingkaneda]

I can tell you this: Lysander+Tactical Terminators(with Cyclone Missile launchers)= swiss army knife bliss

That unit can take on anything. Doing mass wounds with twinlinked stormbolter, ignoring armor with missiles, opening transports with missiles, squishing :) with powerfists.

 

Only 2 weaknesses:AP 1/2 and powerweapons

 

To counter AP 1/2: get cover from your other units or terrain

To counter powerweapons: Let Lysander assault the power weapon unit by himself, or keep out of range if the powerweapon squad is too strong for just him.

 

For even more awesomeness: add Cassius

Now you have 2 Characters to take those AP 1/2 hits with+Your squad does incredible dmg on the charge....provided the enemy isnt holding mass power weapons

[Olis]

For even more awesomeness: add Cassius

 

I second this - since Cassius has been pointed out as a good value for money special character I have nearly always taken him. Not a true game changer but he's definately a useful asset. Unless you want a jump pack chaplain, take Cassius every time. :)

[DarkGuard]

Cassius also fits nicely with a Sternguard squad with his hellfire ammo and combi-flamer, sort of mimicking the Sternguard load out. And with his 4++, T6 and FnP he can be relied upon to take a couple of wounds that would otherwise kill Sternguard. And if they have to chance he makes them more killy then. If you want a cheap character that's not a Libby to accompany Sternguard I'd take Cassius everytime, now I need to remember if he's got his own section in the Sternguard tactica...

[Jaigo]

Never really looked into Cassius, since the only chaplain I have now is the one with jump pack.

 

But that dude is badd ass. I'll proxy the jump pack Chaplain to try Cassius instead of trying to save the squad with one stormshield.

[ak-73]

Cassius is good, don't take Lysander and a librarian below 200 point. Lysander is basically an Assault Terminator squad unto himself (doesn't mean he can go alone but he significantly improves on the shooting and combat of Tactical Terminators. With Assault Terminators he's a bit of a waste.

 

So, yeah, it's probably too much. Epistolary upgrade is not worth the point, don't do this.

 

Plasma Cannon Devastators are too expensive. Would you rather run 2x5 Sternguars in Rhinos with 2 Plasma Cannons each or 10 Devastators with 4 Plasma Cannons. Yeah, I know what my answer to that would be. Especially since the Vengeance rounds of the others complements so nicely.

 

So the plan is this: bring enough guns that can shoot his transports open (Dakka Preds, Land Speeders, Attack Bikes with MM, Tactical Combat Squads with ML or MM). Keep your Sternguards in Rhinos safe. Keep them safe, best out of LOS. Destroy his transports, anything that tries to get close. Anything you fail to destroy gets Terminators unleashed on them. If they are too good for terminators, you clear LOS to the Plasma Cannons in the SG Rhinos and kill whatever that thing is, then you send in the Termniators to clean up at a later turn. If you manage to keep him away from you and he's on foot, bring your Plasma Cannons in and pop smoke, then fry him from the Rhino hatches next turn. Never disembark those PC Sternguards. Your protection again plasma attacks is the Rhino chassis. Much better than a lame 5+ save. You don't lose men while you're ion your vehicle.

 

If he stays at distance, you'll dismount him then move PCs and Terminators in for the kill. If he tries to get close, you have the Terminators as a counter, if hard pressed.

 

Alex

[Jaigo]

Offtopic, but linked to this thread.

 

In the battle last night, I tried to keep them in an rhino. and save them in cover for when needed.

 

Alas the landraider my opponent had blew up the rhino before I could get the chance to get in anywhere in turn 2!

So stranded and not on the part of the battlefield that needed their attention, they only got a few kills in. before the assault termies killed them, leaving cassius alone.

 

Cassius was my man of the match. He shrug off heavy bolter fire, lasscannons and kept assault terminators busy for 3 turns! 2 of those all by himself.

 

Other dicerolls to blow up that landraider and a pesky ironclad weren´t so lucky. Eventualy I lost by 1 killpoint.

 

Also,

I might be confused on how to play my rhino now.

I haven´t used them much since I only played a few matches and recently started with vehicles. But I thought I could have 2 marines shoot out of the hatches.

My opponent told me you have 2 hatches. But one is taken by the default stormbolter slot that is standard wargear. You then can use one marine to shoot out of the other one,

or buy an extra stormbolter.

My oldskool model has 2 normal bolters on top. Again offtopic, but a nudge in the right direction would be appreciated

[ak-73]

Your opponent has been telling you wrong. The firepoints are not the two hatches on the front, it's the huge rectangle behind instead. You draw your line of fire anywhere from there. No extra weapon or gear reduces available fire points. Compare with the Razorback: it loses its 2 firepoints because where the huge hatch of the Rhino is, there is now a gun turret. So you can fire your Storm Bolter and from the 2 fire points. Even better yet, while the 2 firepoints must shoot at the same unit, the Rhino can have a totally different target with Storm Bolter or Hunter-Killer Missile. They shoot as seperate units.

 

As for your game: Rhinos that don't have cover can die easily. It's not a big point loss if it does but unfortunately it's a kill point. Nothing to be done about that, you just need to inflict more kill points than you give.

 

To my ear it sounds like you didn't antiicipate the LR killing your Rhino early which left you then stranded. If you take that factor into account next time, you'll probably be more victorious. Rhinos are disposable, especially wrt Victory Points. They are meant to die sooner or later but the later the more protection your troops get. Plus they are moving cover. For 35 points. Yeah.

 

 

Alex

[Jaigo]

Thanks for clearing that up Alex.

 

Yeah, I totaly didn´t ecpect the LR to go to that rhino, since better targets, and perhaps more dangerous for the units he had were present. Like my devastator squad, with which I made all most of my kill points. So also in his regard perhaps not so smart to take his assault terminators to my rhino. Made him able to use them only in turn 3.

 

Plus.... as a moral boost, I selected a few dice from my old DnD dicebag to use for those rolls that matter! Special saves or to hit´s I really hope to get. Nothing cheaty, only just fancy collored.

I´ve been saying the tin can I bought for 40K rolls bad, seems I jinxed them with that !