Shrike + infiltrating squad & new FAQ

[SeattleDV8]

Oh come on, it's what we do here, heh

[KnowThyEnemy]

tricky question, tricky question. just thinking out loud: if you chose to outflank with said shrike unit, would you play it that only the combat squad with shrike could actually outflank from reserve and the other must enter on your board edge? im leaning towards both can do it (infiltrate/outflank). i think it comes down to some RAI but it definately has RAW support.

RAW says the unit shrike joins has infiltrate. roger

RAW (per new FAQ) says a unit may combat squad when coming in from reserve, being placed in separate locations and counting as 1 deployment (address my outflanking question me thinks).

i think that FAQ shows that you could indeed outflank with both units, despite shrike only being with 1. at the time the game started, its 1 unit, shrike is with them and your saying they are being deployed via outflanking. when they are being deployed, you choose to combat squad them (which is perfectly fine under the new FAQ) but they are still 1 deployment. they still end up on the same side of the board and such, so its not like your getting 2 deployments out of the split.

so if the above scenario is correct, why would they benefit from the outflanking bonus of infiltrate from reserve yet not be allowed to infiltrate as such normally? this is where the bit of RAI would come in. if it works that both units would be able to outflank from reserve, it makes sense that both units would be able to infiltrate after regular deployment. remember the decision to combat squad is made during deployment. infiltrating happens after regular deployment, which means if the non-strike combat squad can't infiltrate because strike no longer confers his rule, then they couldn't deploy because regular deployment has already come and gone and you didn't declare they weren't in reserves. see how silly that is? ;).

 

o pleaseeee tell me infiltrate lets you outflank... :)

[SeattleDV8]

Units with Infiltrate (and Scout) may Outflank BRB pg.75 (pg. 76)

[maturin]

Not to harp on, but does anyone see the confusion that can occur between a RAW and RAI discussion here?

 

As far as I can tell, the discussion up until now (except for the last couple of posts) has been completely based on RAW - and the only thing we've been able to decide is that 1) it's a grey area and 2) following RAW might lead you into a paradox/catch22 situation.

 

As has been pointed out in other threads, once we've reached this point it may be edifying to start including some RAI in the discussion. Otherwise we just throw up our hands in frustration and walk away.....not very satisfying. ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

See, this is where the confusion is coming from. ;)

 

I thought SDV8's line of discussion was a RAW one originally, but it seems to actually be a RAI one.

 

(Please don't misunderstand me! I'm not knocking anyone here!)

 

There were a few back and forths about it, that I don't think would have happened (and they wouldn't have been needed) if this specific line of discussion was looked at as RAI from the start.

[Something Wycked]

/rubs hands together- Alrighty! With the Admin's blessing from the other thread, here goes!

 

I think the RAW of the FAQ + Shrike is unclear. It specifically allows the combat-squadding of units coming on from Reserve and being deployed by Infiltrate, but it seems as though there's a conflict with Shrike's special rule, since he must be attached to the unit for it to gain his rules.

 

The Avoidance of Conflicts Canon

Do not interpret a rule in such a way that creates more conflicts that it resolves.

Interpreting the FAQ + Shrike RAW in such a way that the rules break down for the combat squad which does not have Shrike attached creates more conflicts than it resolves- we end up with a squad in limbo, unable to be deployed normally and unable to deploy as Infiltrators.

 

Therefore the logical and fair way to play it is to allow both Combat Squads to deploy via Infiltrate, Outflank, etc, as allowed by the FAQ and Shrike's rules. No fuss, no muss. B)

 

And that's the power of RAI, Gentleman ;)

[greatcrusade08]

surely under the heading of 'keeping things simple' it would be eaiser to deny the unit the ability to combat squad to avoid any rules discrepancies

[Something Wycked]

Except the FAQ specifically allows it, so we can't revert to that level of simplicity B)

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL SW! ;)

 

I still support the RAW allowing this anyway. B)

[SeattleDV8]

I believe this one is ...mostly RAW, but I really like Wicked's Canon on this.

[Something Wycked]

To be fair, the Canon is not mine, but belongs to The Rules Lawyers. :D