Cpt_Reaper Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 So my friend has recently ordered a unit of Plague Bearers and thus we discussed their ability to hold an objective. High toughness, poisoned attacks and Feel No Pain. That's where our question came up. Feel No Pain is ignored by power weapons and apparently Ap1 or 2 weapons as if they ignore all forms of armour then Feel No Pain has no power. However, Plague Bearers only have an Invuln. save which cannot be negated (in most cases). So does that mean that unless something bypasses their Invuln. save that they always get Feel No Pain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorneeq Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 USR Feel no Pain pg.75 states that it cannot be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2. It doesn't matter if model has Inv save which cannot be negated by this weapons. So only their Inv and they "Feel the Pain" :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 However, Plague Bearers only have an Invuln. save which cannot be negated (in most cases). So does that mean that unless something bypasses their Invuln. save that they always get Feel No Pain? Their FNP rolls are negated in exactly the same circumstances as any other unit with FNP, i.e. when they are struck by weapons that never allow an armour save (eg power weapons) or by AP 1 or 2 weapons or by attacks that cause Instant Death (even though they are immune to ID). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 An interesting question. Do you get FNP for attacks that *should* cause ID, but don't, becuase you're immune to it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 No, BRB pg. 75 ....even if the model is an eternal warrior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorneeq Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You don't get Your Feel no Pain save against weapons which cause Instant Death (it doesn't matter if they have double Strength or other rule to that effect) even if You have Eternal Warrior. It's clearly stated in Feel no Pain rules in Rulebook. Edit: I should have written it simple as Seattle ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 lol! Not such an interesting question! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 well that's one rule I won't be mistaking. Plague Bearers with FnP at all times...I shudder to think how badly I would have fared had that been the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2971454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 other things that never allow armor saves (and thus FnP cannot protect against) dangerous terrain rolls, perils of the warp (not that it matters to plaug bearers). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2973587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 other things that never allow armor saves (and thus FnP cannot protect against) dangerous terrain rolls, perils of the warp (not that it matters to plaug bearers). Typhus does care about that (when he uses his reapers force part) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2974506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I thought you could take FNP against DT rolls? Least thats how our resident BA player has been playing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2974789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 He has been very clearly doing it wrong. You can't roll for FnP when you suffer a wound that never allows armor saves, including Dangerous Terrain, and I do believe that's actually an example given in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2974794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hmph, good to know! That just makes his all jumper army that much weaker against the Njal/RP setup I've been playtesting recently. Tempest's Wrath FTW! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2974891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hmph, good to know! That just makes his all jumper army that much weaker against the Njal/RP setup I've been playtesting recently. Tempest's Wrath FTW! Yeah, a combo that has hurt my Blood Angels often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2974899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So PB's would not get their FnP against Winds of Chaos? Cause it ignores all armor saves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2975929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 There's a difference between ignoring all armour saves and no save allowed at all, so it does depend on the exact wording... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2975951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Whether it allows "no saves" or "ignores all armor saves," if armor saves can never be taken against that attack, then it disallows FnP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2975973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm pretty sure the "no FnP against attacks that don't allow armour saves" applies only to combat. Against shooting it's AP 1/2 and ID hits, so Winds allow FnP as it doesn't fit the shooting criteria. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No, reread the rules. It says any wounds that don't allow armor saves, and again it specifically mentions Dangerous Terrain, which is just plain not an attack at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So PB's would not get their FnP against Winds of Chaos? Cause it ignores all armor saves? No one can get feel no pain against winds of chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Perhaps it would be good and easy to stop all of these misconceptions by simply reading/providing the rule on page 75: "This ability cannot be used against wounds from weapons that inflict instant death (by having a high enough Strength or a special rule to that effect, even if the model is an eternal warrior." "Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons, and any other wound against which no armor save can ever be taken (like wounds from power fists, Dreadnought close combat weapons, rending weapons that roll a 6, Perils of the Warp, failed dangerous terrain tests, etc)." Can an armor save be taken by an AP3 weapon? Of course, some units have a 2+ armor save, thus you can roll for FnP against AP3 weapons (as long as they won't inflict Instant Death). However, Plague Bearers only have an Invuln. save which cannot be negated (in most cases). So does that mean that unless something bypasses their Invuln. save that they always get Feel No Pain?No, the invulnerable save has nothing to do with anything. If a Plaguebearer suffers a wound from one of the following sources (and others like them), they do not get their FnP: - Str 10 weapons - AP 1-2 weapons - Power weapons - Force weapons (because they are both power weapons and when you use the ability it inflicts instant death) - Wind of Chaos/Breath of Chaos - Gift of Chaos/Boon of Mutation - Failed Dangerous Terrain tests - Fabius Bile's pimp cane - Rending weapons that roll a 6 (from shooting or close combat) - Monstrous Creature close combat attacks - A failed Death or Glory attempt - Psychic powers that are AP 1-2 and/or ignore armor saves etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thank you Seahawk ;) I know which power I will be taking more of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Make sure to remember that its the base toughness, not the end toughness. Plaguemarines actually die from missile launchers, no problem because theyre T 4(5). *IIRC, my books are at home and I am not* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No, reread the rules. It says any wounds that don't allow armor saves, and again it specifically mentions Dangerous Terrain, which is just plain not an attack at all. Fair enough, I'll take your word for it as my rulebook is in a different location to where I am currently! :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes, I was well aware. Plaguebearers don't have the Mark of Nurgle, thus they are T5 :ph34r:. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245625-plague-bearers-and-fnp/#findComment-2976479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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