Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Everyone knows who and what Angron is, he's the pyscho, the berzerker, the blood-drenched nutjob who cares only for fighting and killing. But was he supposed to be? One of the greatest mysteries of the Heresy for me is Angron. He is a tragic victim of circumstance, turned into a monster. His cortical implants where the start, increasing his rage and cobat effectiveness. However these could not destroy his real, true nature. He planned and executed a mass breakout from the gladiatorial pits of his homeworld and forged an army out of them. When the Emperor turned up, Angrons loyalty and sense of honour made him refuse to leave his people's side untill the choice was taken away from him. The guilt of leaving his people to die and the rage against the Emperor finished waht the implants started. I wonder what he could of been if the Emperor had helped instead of just teleporting Angron out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The Dornian Heresy had an interesting theory about it, and I suggest a read. Basically, he'd be disciplined. That would be his thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2971686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Everyone knows who and what Angron is, he's the pyscho, the berzerker, the blood-drenched nutjob who cares only for fighting and killing. But was he supposed to be? One of the greatest mysteries of the Heresy for me is Angron. He is a tragic victim of circumstance, turned into a monster. His cortical implants where the start, increasing his rage and cobat effectiveness. However these could not destroy his real, true nature. He planned and executed a mass breakout from the gladiatorial pits of his homeworld and forged an army out of them. When the Emperor turned up, Angrons loyalty and sense of honour made him refuse to leave his people's side untill the choice was taken away from him. The guilt of leaving his people to die and the rage against the Emperor finished waht the implants started. I wonder what he could of been if the Emperor had helped instead of just teleporting Angron out. The same bloody thing. A nut job. While the Dornian Heresy does offer an excellent "What if?" scenario, the Angron of the regular verse was doomed long before the Emperor showed up. Any sham concerns about his fallen comrades are dispelled when A) he agreed to fight in the Emperor's name and :tu: turned his own Legion into frothing whack jobs with the Butcher's Nails, even against the express orders of the Emperor (as of the ol IA article, that may well be retconned.) Had he truly had wounded martial pride, the blood soaked gladiator should have simply refused to fight alongside the Emperor or not turned the slavers tools on his own Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2971798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarine Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 As a fan of the World Eaters and the Dornian Heresy I do also wonder if it was ever as simple as 'the Emperor teleports down, saves the day and Angron is loyal to him forever'. Apologies for the wall of text, but as a long-time lurker on this site, I have a few things I have been thinking, I suppose my argument boils down to: 1 - Angron had been a slave for his entire life. No matter how wonderful the Emperor was, I doubt he would have ever been a willing servant to anyone. In the current timeline, I feel this was probably as much a factor in his fall as the butchers nails and his guilt. 2 - Angron refused the Emperor, and probably not in a nice way. I imagine that the Emperor would have found it difficult to back down and save Angron's life the way Angron wanted him to and I doubt that Angron would have had much respect for Him. Plus it would have set a precedent if when you are told no you can force your master to do what you want. 3 - I'm not entirely certain the Emperor entirely wanted to rescue Angron, the teleporting may have been a sign that the Emperor was starting to think of the Primarchs as his sons - I think that they were originally meant to be generals, diplomats and servants, not children. Horus and the long time he spent with the Emperor may be partly to blame. Consider that Angron was one of the less successful primarchs, he didn't unify or conquer his world, he didn't build new technologies. He was a great tactician, despite his rage, and a good leader, but failed to build anything lasting. 4 - We don't know what may have been at stake apart from the loss of some rebels. This is a bit of a weak argument, but we don't know if the planet De'shea was a part of the Imperium already, had techology the Imperium wanted or if there was some other factor. All we know is that Angron's rebellion and motley army of gladiators was not what the Emperor wanted. 5 - Also as has been mentioned, was Angron THAT invested in his men. Not long after they are dead, he takes command of a Space Marine legion and moulds them to his ideas of warfare. Some of this may have been his way of coping, but some of it smacks of insincerity. In the end, I think Angron may have had great potential as a leader of men. He seems to be a more than capable general who cultivated an image of wildness and aggression to throw his enemies off guard. Where it all fell down was the way an image of ruthlessness and viciousness slowly became the entire character of the legion, wiping out any loyalty and discipline they originally possessed. I see this in the was Kharne changes from a noble character keeping his master in check to being the betrayer we all known and love(?). What was once an image to scare the enemy became corrupted until it was all that was left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2971830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 After Desh'ea (Tales of Heresy) makes it clear just how hard it was to get Angron to take command of the Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2971836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think had the Emperor taken a different course of action with Angron then the primarch might have ended up like the two world eaters in Outcast Dead, the two that hadn't had the implants put in yet. They still had rage but it was less acute and they could control it better. The book also showed that World Eaters have a barbarian/warrior code of honour (a more savage version of the one the Ultramarines have) and that they might fight with far more aggression than other legionaries but it is still focused and controlled, not just mindless hacking and slashing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2972079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In "Aurelian" we get a quick impression of Angro from Lorgar's point of view. He see Angron as a "cracked statue". "Features that should have been composed handsome were wrenched into a jagged, snarling expression, flawed by muscle twitches that bordered on spasms. It was easy to see why others believed Angron always looked on the edge of fury. In truth, he looked like a man struggling to concentrate through epileptic agony... it was hard not to admire his unbreakable endurance." I think Angron was created to be a hero. He could have been a second Guilliman if not for is tragic "childhood". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2972103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wonder what he could of been if the Emperor had helped instead of just teleporting Angron out. He would be like Mortarion, butthurt over his rescue by Emperor. Maybe more mentally stable though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245685-the-mystery-of-angron/#findComment-2972143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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