Squirrelloid Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I guess the thing that stands out to me is they specifically say units from your Troops Selection instead of just troop units, and thus it must mean something different or the extra wording would be unnecessary. (And given the space constraints they were operating in, extra unnecessary verbiage is strongly unfavorable). Basically, we can't just ignore words in the rules. They're using significantly different words here, so they can't be referencing the same concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It's unimportant, because they also describe them as 'units' in what ever FOC slot they were bought for. BRB pg. 87 ... a rhino bought for a Space Marine Tactical Squad (Troops) counts as a unit of Troops... Sometimes a single choice on the Force Organisation Chart will allow you to select more than one unit. ....include units that, much like dedicated transports, are not part of the army's FOC. BRB pg92 ...allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single force organisation slot (like dedicated transports) BRB pg93 ....then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I guess the thing that stands out to me is they specifically say units from your Troops Selection instead of just troop units, and thus it must mean something different or the extra wording would be unnecessary. (And given the space constraints they were operating in, extra unnecessary verbiage is strongly unfavorable). Basically, we can't just ignore words in the rules. They're using significantly different words here, so they can't be referencing the same concept. We're not ignoring words in the rules. All words are accounted for, with a very logical meaning. You're reading too much into the verbiage, and implying a distinction that does not exist and is clearly not intended. Again, just see the example they provide on the same page as evidence of this. You're assuming that GW writes tight prose, and writes tight rules, as its #1 priority. This is a clear example that neither is necessarily true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I have a related question stemming from the new IG faq which states: Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentenceChange to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.” So how would chimeras as dedicated transports work with this new FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Really, you've been on Dakka Dakka haven't you.....Heh The Dedicated Transports have been bought for and are attached to the Units which are part of the platoon, therefore they are part of the platoon and may be deployed along with the other units of the platoon counting as one unit. One freaking huge unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catheras Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The answer is written plain and simple under Deployment, Multiple Unit Choices: "Note that on occasionally the Codexes allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single organisation slot(like dedicated transports, etc.) Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as sperate units in all respects." Dawn of war rules: "He can then deply up to two units from his Troop selections...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The answer is written plain and simple under Deployment, Multiple Unit Choices: "Note that on occasionally the Codexes allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single organisation slot(like dedicated transports, etc.) Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as sperate units in all respects." Dawn of war rules: "He can then deply up to two units from his Troop selections...." So, one full platoon and 1 chimera. Neat. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No , one platoon and any dedicated transport bought for that platoon. The IG rules allow you to take several units (the platoon) and has them 'count as' a single unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyanamiKun Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No , one platoon and any dedicated transport bought for that platoon.The IG rules allow you to take several units (the platoon) and has them 'count as' a single unit. Could you give me a page and book reference? That would be helpful for me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No , one platoon and any dedicated transport bought for that platoon.The IG rules allow you to take several units (the platoon) and has them 'count as' a single unit. Could you give me a page and book reference? That would be helpful for me :) INFANTRY PLATOONComposition: 1 Platoon Command Squad, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapons Squads, 0-2 Special Weapons Squads, and 0-1 Conscripts Squad. Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organisation chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves. Although I'm not sure this overrides the rule in the BRB about Dedicated Transports counting as seperate units from the unit it was bought for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You can already have 14 different units, just from the composition you stated counting as a single unit. Why would their dedicated transports be a problem? It is strongly implied that they are part of the platoon from this line in the FAQ Any units in reserve that areembarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately. If the dedicated transports didn't also count as part of the platoon , they would have said 'embarked on a transport' and would not have stated 'non-dedicated' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 am i correct in assuming that you deploy the entire platoon, then check and see you have at least two units of troops on teh table and deploy no more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No (I think, can't quite understand the question). An entire platoon counts as 1 Troops Unit when deploying for DoW. You don't need to deploy any more than that, but if you have a second platoon there's no reason not to deploy them too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 am i correct in assuming that you deploy the entire platoon, then check and see you have at least two units of troops on teh table and deploy no more? No, because dawn of war allows UP TO two units, not ATLEAST two units of troops. The IG Infantry Platoon merely has special rules that override the normal deployment considerations- IE, is it a unit and what slot was it purchased via? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 woh woh woh. Wait a minute. It says it counts as a single troops choice (true), and that it deploys together, but it does not say it counts as a single unit. Its upwards of 10 units maxed out. I will grant that if you choose to deploy the platoon you get to deploy *all* of it. But after you've deployed one you have well over 2 units of troops on the table. A combat squadded unit of space marines with a dedicated transport is also a single troops choice. If deploying one of the combat squads in the transport, they all deploy together. How is that situation any different than the IG infantry platoon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The IG errata makes it so: Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentenceChange to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed...” Ergo, each Infantry Platoon, which can be up to 127 models, is one unit for the purposes of Dawn of War deployment. So IG can deploy ~254 models on turn one in Dawn of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes you could deploy that many IG with Dawn of war (infantry without transport) but if you do the math this bunch of happy fellows will net at 1165 points (this includes any possible member and all minimum must buy upgrades). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The last tournament I went to I faced two 55-man platoons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You can already have 14 different units, just from the composition you stated counting as a single unit.Why would their dedicated transports be a problem? It is strongly implied that they are part of the platoon from this line in the FAQ Any units in reserve that areembarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately. If the dedicated transports didn't also count as part of the platoon , they would have said 'embarked on a transport' and would not have stated 'non-dedicated' Yes, but that covers reserves (and outflanking I would assume), not DoW. So I stand by my assessment. You get to deploy the entire platoon, but the DoW deployment rules state that transports count towards the max number of units you can deploy. In this case, one platoon and 1 chimera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I would agree. The "In addition" opening to the Reserves/Outflanking section indicates that this is a separate rule. The Infantry Platoon counts as one unit for Dawn of War the same as the Tactical Squad counts as one unit; both "units'" transports are still counted as a separate unit. Dedicated Transports are only mentioned in cases of Reserves/Outflanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The Transports are chosen as part of the platoon- I see no reason they shouldnt be included in the rule that you deploy the whole selection, not just A unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Me too. A chimera is part of a squad is part of a platoon, or Chimera < Squad < Platoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The problem is the Infantry Platoon is a unit just like a Tactical Squad is a unit- their transports, while picked for the same FOC slot, are separate units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The problem is the Infantry Platoon is a unit just like a Tactical Squad is a unit- their transports, while picked for the same FOC slot, are separate units. You could say the same thing about the attached special weapon squads, etc. But that is the entire reason for this rule- to allow the different units from the same FOC slot to be deployed as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The "attached" Special Weapon Squads are part of the Infantry Platoon. Dedicated Transports are not part of the Infantry Platoon any more than the Rhino is a part of the Tactical Squad- they are Dedicated Transports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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