Centurion Tom Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Having finally finished A Thousand Sons I have began wondering about the motives of the remaining Thousand Sons, or a least the ones who are not dust in a shell. Are they still seekin redemption as much as they want vengeance? I know they have been completed betrayed by both sides, but could the remaining sorceres and even Magnus still be seeking some sort of vindication within the eye of the emperor. I have always been captivated by Tzeentch (sp) as a god since I got into warhammer fantasy during the 4th edition and read the beastary entry for the lord of change and other Tzeentch daemons. I like the idea of a god that's nature is change. A compleatly positive and negative force at the same time. Sorry if this has been discussed before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It proberbly varies from Sorcerer to Sorcerer, in the example of my Sorcerer, his main motivation is to try and rebuild Prospero with the mortals and examples of Prosperoian Fauna (on the battle barge as a previous captain had gardening as one of his non martial pursuits.) and to protect mankind. However, due to events in the scouring, notably the killing of several of his apprentices by Captain Marcus Augustus of Ultramarines, later first Chapter master of the Champions of Guilliman chapter, and the death of Captain P'var Kheln of The Salamanders at the hands of Charlghour, Lord of the wasting pox, of the death guard has led to him delighting in wiping out contingents of Death Guard and Ultramarine successor chapters. The fact senior members of the legion spent time in the others allows for a fair bit of differences between them, for example, Zarathustra spent his in the Salamanders, where he he picked up traits and philosophy from them, and was saved from being crushed by an Eldar wraithlord by P'var, meaning that he refuses to fight the Salamanders and occasionally aids them indirectly (attacking warbands plaaning to attack them, harrassing rebel/xenos fleets ect.) Though the humanitarian philosophy he picked from the XVIII legion means he has clashed with other sorcerers over their use of regular humans, he hates Magnus, believing his folly damned them, and then proceed to sacrifice prospero and most of the legion to appease his own guilt. He sided with Ahriman and was one of the sorcerers involved in the rubric. Many suspect the loss of prospero and the heresy may have affected his sanity, and indeed, it could be argued his quest to rebuild prospero and the legion is a fools errand that can never be acomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrog Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 100% agree that it varies between warbands. Some want redemption in the eyes of the Imperium. Some are totally dedicated to Chaos. Some just want to gather knowledge or increase their own power. This is the case in most Chaos Marine groups, but I imagine the lwaders of Thousand Sons warbands have more freedom than most to pursue their own goals. Because of the Rubric, there would be very little dissent within the warband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llagos_Tyrant Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I haven't read A Thousand Sons, but I think that just relating to the Thousand Sons as human beings, they would probably be torn over conflicting allegiances. Magnus let the attack on Prospero happen without raising the planetary defences from what I've read on the issue, so I can see there being a number of flesh and blood Thousand Sons angry for that. At the same time, the likely successor of Magnus, Ahriman cast the rubric which reduced all of their brethren to dust and trapped them for eternity within their armour so they're likely as furious with him as they are grief stricken over their brothers. Meanwhile, they could very well blame the Emperor for the attack on Prospero and despise the whole of the Imperium, as much as they could believe that the Space Wolves were taking his orders a step farther than he had intended and blame them solely for it. If they did blame the Space Wolves singularly, then its plausible that they could seek a redemption in death from their Emperor. Meanwhile, their patron God, Tzeentch could easily be blamed for the whole series of events, and with the deaths of all their none psychic brothers so I can see very little love for him. I'd imagine that the Thousand Sons would only really gather as a group to bring vengeance upon the Space Wolves, and even then they would all have their own motives and conflicting emotions and beliefs on who was to blame and who their enemies really are. If I were a Thousand Sons Sorcerer, who had seen his Primarch allow his legion to fall, his Primarchs successor turn my friends and battle brothers to ash, the Emperors lap dogs reap rewards for my planets unjust destruction, and my supposed patron God use and abuse my entire legion, I would be left a fairly broken sort of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 In many ways, that tells that those of the Thousand Sons are by far mentally the strongest of all marines, since they have truelly been betrayed by all, Emperor, Primarch and God, no other legion has had their Primarch forsake them like Magnus did, nor have to see their brothers be turned to dust by their greatest, all due to a heartless god's whims. It will be interesting to see what Ahriman would do when/if he becomes a new god after visiting the black library.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Tom Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you all for your thoughts. I like the depth to their character, their not just evil for the sake of it, but have been manipulated by the actions of their patron, and betrayed by everyone including their own legion. GrimApostle I think you are right when you say it would lead the survivors broken, which in someways could make the most dangerous of the traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just thought, could a high number of the non rubric Thousand sons suffer form multiplier personality's? and or various other similar metal issues as a coping mechanism/ reaction to what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just thought, could a high number of the non rubric Thousand sons suffer form multiplier personality's? and or various other similar metal issues as a coping mechanism/ reaction to what happened? I'd imagine when a sorcerer talks there is also a voice in the background which sounds completely sad. It would seem he is in multiple places at once. A calm and confident voice matched with a terrified and tragic one seems about right for our boys in blue. They are, after all, human. I don't care what people say about space marines and their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It will be interesting to see what Ahriman would do when/if he becomes a new god after visiting the black library.... Well, it depends...does he have a library card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 har! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The hatred for the Space Wolves is more intense than anything directed at the Imperium. Personally, I am of the opinion that Ahriman detests what the Imperium has become, it no longer represents the original ideals that it once stood for and the goals that the Emperor had wanted to achieve. Magnus on the other hand was utterly broken and crushed so gave himself up fully to Tzeentch and he is now too far gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Personally, I am of the opinion that Ahriman detests what the Imperium has become, it no longer represents the original ideals that it once stood for and the goals that the Emperor had wanted to achieve. "And what are the achievements of your fragile Imperium? It is a corpse rotting slowly from within while maggots writhe in its belly. It was built with the toil of heroes and giants, and now it is inhabited by frightened weaklings to whom the glories of those times are half-forgotten legends. I have forgotten nothing, and my wisdom has expanded far beyond mere mortal frailties." (с) Ahriman the Exiled ^_^ Also, from the Deathwatch: Mark of the Xenos: "It is by the Changer of the Ways that I have power, it is by Magnus the Red that I have life!" © Ahriman :) So yes, it certainly differs through the warbands but in most they're certainly dedicated to Tzeentch and the destruction of the rotten Imperium of Man except that fact they prefer seeking knowledge and artifacts, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Due to the inconsistancies of literature (BL vs Fantasy Flight vs. actual Codex), fluff for Tsons is what we choose to make it. I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 But we can't make loyal TSons. Mark of Tzeentch, you know :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 But we can't make loyal TSons. Mark of Tzeentch, you know :rolleyes: Yes you can, take some sternguard and put them in cover... ap3 bolters, 4+ save...tadaa! :) (and cheaper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 But without 4++ and an aspirin' sorcerer :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Well, cover gives 4+ against shooting and you could always have a guy with a MM or something, proxying him as a sorcerer(who doesn't have to roll to see if it works - he's THAT good!)... ...and "aspirin" sorcerer? Does he have a headache? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 a guy with a MM or something, proxying him as a sorcerer(who doesn't have to roll to see if it works - he's THAT good!)... Perhaps. But how would you proxy the force weapon? :P and "aspirin" sorcerer? Does he have a headache? Maybe. I'll think it out :) But we digress. Mark of Tzeentch shows us that there can be no loyal TSons or Ahriman ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Then again, they aren't that good for their price... My hopes are to be able to field a Thousand Sons army again like I did in 2nd ed...that would be lovely... ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It is just called the Mark of Tzeentch for simplicity. It's quite plausible to say that while it may look like Tzeentch it's really just how awesome Ahriman actually is at controlling the warp and protecting his marines. Magnusites have the mark because they have sided with the changer of ways but Ahriman and his cabal don't. I'm actually in the process of removing all tzeentch iconography from my rubrics to reinforce this standpoint haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Must admit, wish I could do that, but I don't thave the time (between uni work, swimming, life, and other projects) perhaps after my essays and lpc vow are complete I may. Ethrion, do you use daemon princes? I am going to make one, but I have converted so many sorcerers/commanders that I could run double sorcerer/lord if I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Must admit, wish I could do that, but I don't thave the time (between uni work, swimming, life, and other projects) perhaps after my essays and lpc vow are complete I may. Ethrion, do you use daemon princes? I am going to make one, but I have converted so many sorcerers/commanders that I could run double sorcerer/lord if I wanted to. I didn't use any form of daemon initially. I figured Ahriman would manipulate the warp in other ways and not consort with daemons especially not with daemon princes. But because the chaos codex is rather bland if you just stick to rubrics, Ahriman, chosen and obliterators I have started to include lesser, greater and daemon princes recently. The way I see it Ahriman and his lieutenants summon lesser daemons because to them they are just warp-stuff manifested to do their will and then greater daemons or daemon princes show up when one of the sorcerers loses control and the flesh change takes him, much like what happened to Phosis T'kar on Prospero. Plus the standard Lord of Change model (not the forge world one) is actually really awesome if you build it with both heads and dont use the two staff head options they give you (one a Tzeentch symbol the other a silly smiley face). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Due to the inconsistancies of literature (BL vs Fantasy Flight vs. actual Codex), fluff for Tsons is what we choose to make it. I like it Just as Tzeentch planned. :) Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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