Deinos, of the Sons of Malice

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Ok, so I want to run Deinos. For those of you who are blissfully unaware and haven't read Battle of the Abyss, he may be one of the few things worth mentioning in that book.

 

Deinos, master of the Burning Hand chapter, stepped forwards. 'Lorgar shows Admiral Zadkiel all honour,' he said. In keeping with the name of his chapter, Deinos's gauntlets were permenantly wreathed in flames from gas jets built into his vambraces. 'It is written that we will succeed.'

 

And that's all we have on him.

 

Now, I may be crazy but when I thought of this guy making war I thought those built in flamers might prove to be a lot stronger than when they're simply lighting his hand up. The idea of a chapter master with his hands basicly acting as flamers was awesome, and so I've kind of held on to him in the back of my mind, and even written a little fluff for him. I won't bother you guys with all of that here, but basicly he becomes disillusioned with the Dark Gods via some 'voice' who keeps him from dying. He leaves the Word Bearers and searches the Eye until he comes across the Sons of Malice, and it's at this point that I'm depicting him - as a marine who serves the Sons of Malice in his own special position.

 

So, rules wise. I'm thinking of running him as a regular SM captain, with a few special differences.

 

Most obvious is his flamers. I'm thinking of having him choose between a twin-linked flamer shot or two regular flamer shots each turn. Is this unbalanced, as in, people are always going to take one of the choices? Also, due to the extreme heat, in CC it grants +1 Strength. I was thinking about 20-30 points for this weapon.

 

For his inexplicable inability to die. I was thinking Eternal Warrior or Feel No Pain would be simple enough, and about 25-30 points for one would be about right? That, and arming him with Artificer Armour and a Storm Shield and their appropiate costs, but that's not really requiring discussion as it's actually official :lol:

 

Alright, thoughts, go!

 

 

 

 

 

Summary!

 

Stats - See Codex: Space Marines Captain entry

 

Wargear - Lord of the Burning Hands

 

Lord of The Burning Hands - 'fluff'

 

Affords a 2+ Armour save and a 3+ Invulnerable save

Gifts the following ranged attacks -

The Burning Hands

(Spread)	Template	4	5	Assault 2
(Focus)	6"	8	1	Assault 1, Melta, Twin-linked

Gifts the following abilities in Close Combat -

Allows re-rolls of To Hit and To Wound rolls

Deinos may trade all of his close combat attacks for a single small blast template, placed in base contact with him. This template does not scatter. Those under the template take a S4 hit, which benefits from the previous ability to re-roll To Wound rolls

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Looks pretty fun, like the fluff. Is the 'voice' he hears Malal?

 

On the note of weapons - A Twin-linked Flamer is effectively a Flamer which can re-roll to-wound, while 2 Flamers are effectively an Assault 2 Flamer, which would always be better. Maybe just have one setting?

 

There's a similar bit of wargear (Dreadfire Heavy Flamers) on a character in the Badab War IA, a Salamanders Dread. It's explicitly pre-heresy tech, so Deinos' gauntlets might be related. Dreadfire flamers can either be fired as two Heavy Flamers or a Twin-linked Meltagon; plus, a single attack in the assault phase can be sacrificed in close combat to damage all models (friend and foe) in base contact.

 

Eternal Warrior would probably be good, although I guess you try out a Celestine/that one Grey Knight-styled Resurrection rule? That'd probably up his cost a fair bit.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Looks pretty fun, like the fluff. Is the 'voice' he hears Malal?

 

On the note of weapons - A Twin-linked Flamer is effectively a Flamer which can re-roll to-wound, while 2 Flamers are effectively an Assault 2 Flamer, which would always be better. Maybe just have one setting?

Yes, the voice he hears does turn out to be Malal - he joined them because one of their leaders spoke with 'the voice' despite not being born until after Deinos started hearing it ;)

 

I suspected that, but wasn't sure - ironicly enough, as mod of Homegrown rules I really don't have much experience gamewise :) Until I think of something better, the profile of his shooting attack is as an Assault 2 flamer.

 

There's a similar bit of wargear (Dreadfire Heavy Flamers) on a character in the Badab War IA, a Salamanders Dread. It's explicitly pre-heresy tech, so Deinos' gauntlets might be related. Dreadfire flamers can either be fired as two Heavy Flamers or a Twin-linked Meltagon; plus, a single attack in the assault phase can be sacrificed in close combat to damage all models (friend and foe) in base contact.

 

Interesting, wouldn't be surprised if the IA writer took similar inspiration from Deinos :D Damaging everyone in CC/base contact, hmmmm? At the cost of one attack? I might use something similar, like this -

 

Deinos of the Sons of Malice (DSM) may sacrifice his attacks to attack every model in base contact with him. These attacks hit automaticly, but roll to wound normally.

 

Eternal Warrior would probably be good, although I guess you try out a Celestine/that one Grey Knight-styled Resurrection rule? That'd probably up his cost a fair bit.

While ressurection would be keeping in his fluff, I don't want him to be too OP and unviable. I also don't want him to be remembered as 'that one SoM who can come back to life' gamewise. If you're reccomending Eternal Warrior over Feel No Pain, though, I'll take that ^_^

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Yes, the voice he hears does turn out to be Malal - he joined them because one of their leaders spoke with 'the voice' despite not being born until after Deinos started hearing it ;)

 

I suspected that, but wasn't sure - ironicly enough, as mod of Homegrown rules I really don't have much experience gamewise :blush: Until I think of something better, the profile of his shooting attack is as an Assault 2 flamer.

 

Interesting, wouldn't be surprised if the IA writer took similar inspiration from Deinos :D Damaging everyone in CC/base contact, hmmmm? At the cost of one attack? I might use something similar, like this -

 

Deinos of the Sons of Malice (DSM) may sacrifice his attacks to attack every model in base contact with him. These attacks hit automaticly, but roll to wound normally.

Approval! Malal's perhaps the Chaosiest chaos god, needs more time in the limelight. It's rare to see a Chaos Lord with horde-murdering over a focus on elite infantry, Deinos should turn out interesting to play.

 

Also, one quirk of the "attack all in base contact" rule I forgot to mention; it's done using the Strength and AP of the Heavy Flamer! Mebbe knock that down to flamer levels and use that with Deinos? The AP5 would make it an interesting choice in some cases. That would offer a fun choice - do I attack at S5 AP- normally, or S4 AP5 to all in base contact? (Losing all of his attacks to do the base-contact-attack might be a bit too much of a sacrifice, but I suppose it could also be a decent way to limit his strength.)

 

Hmmm, actually, if we assume fluffwise the gauntlets are a smaller variant of the Dreadfire Heavy Flamers (Dreadfire Gauntlets?), maybe give them a small melta attack too? Since DF Heavy Flamers combine to make a TL meltagun, DF Flamers would probably make a TL Inferno Pistol.

 

While ressurection would be keeping in his fluff, I don't want him to be too OP and unviable. I also don't want him to be remembered as 'that one SoM who can come back to life' gamewise. If you're reccomending Eternal Warrior over Feel No Pain, though, I'll take that ^_^

Yeah, conservative is probably better. I mainly recommend EW since FnP on a chaos guy screams Nurgle. :P

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Approval! Malal's perhaps the Chaosiest chaos god, needs more time in the limelight. It's rare to see a Chaos Lord with horde-murdering over a focus on elite infantry, Deinos should turn out interesting to play.

 

Some people agree with the Malal getting more atttention, and you can find them here

 

As to horde butchering, I hope to make a choice outside of the somewhat risky Bloodfeeder for that purpose. IMHO, there should always be a lot of viable choices for any given role, and for each unit to adopt (unless they're things like Vanguard and Devastators, and even then they should be able to do their prefered method of combat through different means).

 

Also, one quirk of the "attack all in base contact" rule I forgot to mention; it's done using the Strength and AP of the Heavy Flamer! Mebbe knock that down to flamer levels and use that with Deinos? The AP5 would make it an interesting choice in some cases. That would offer a fun choice - do I attack at S5 AP- normally, or S4 AP5 to all in base contact? (Losing all of his attacks to do the base-contact-attack might be a bit too much of a sacrifice, but I suppose it could also be a decent way to limit his strength.)

 

Nice, that's actually pretty brilliant - the dilemna you put up is exactly the kind of thing that I want players to have, for options :lol: If I remove only one attack, what would be the point of the either or options?

 

However... he'll be on a standard infantry base, so he may only be gaining one or two attacks with this, with less chance to succeed. What about placing a small template centered over Deinos for the same purpose, granting him more possible targets, though again not as strong?

 

Hmmm, actually, if we assume fluffwise the gauntlets are a smaller variant of the Dreadfire Heavy Flamers (Dreadfire Gauntlets?), maybe give them a small melta attack too? Since DF Heavy Flamers combine to make a TL meltagun, DF Flamers would probably make a TL Inferno Pistol.

 

I would go with that, but I want to keep this to one Codex for wargear... although if I'm offering this for Chaos players, I'll have to transfer over the rules for Artificer Armour and Storm Shield into his special rules w/ points costs... However, giving him a melta attack would increase his diversity, and it'll be easy enough to transfer over Infernus Pistol rules the same way I plan to with the AA and SS.

 

Ok, the only problem I see is that Deinos has to assault what he shoots, but still it's nice to have the off chance option, and the problem would be on the player's own planning.

 

Consider it done, I'll put an entry for the special rule explaining all the wargear transfers below :D I assume the Strength/AP is correct? Sadly don't have the BA codex ;)

 

Yeah, conservative is probably better. I mainly recommend EW since FnP on a chaos guy screams Nurgle. :P

Nurgle is disgusting, EW it is. Thank you for that insight :D

 

 

Wargear...

 

Lord of the Burning Hands - This armour was crafted at the height of the Great Crusade by the tech adepts among Lorgar's fleet. It was designed to protect its wearer from not only the flames it emits but from almost any attack. This fire can be focused into a melta strength attack - DSM may choose between two shooting attacks with the following profiles - S8 AP3, Assault 1, twin-linked - S4 AP5, Assault 2.Deinos has also learned to bring ruin to his foes around him (rules still being discussed). Its protection was always powerful, but under the patronage of Malal Deinos has become nearly untouchable. It confers a 2+ armour save and increase his Invulnerable Save to 3++.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

However... he'll be on a standard infantry base, so he may only be gaining one or two attacks with this, with less chance to succeed. What about placing a small template centered over Deinos for the same purpose, granting him more possible targets, though again not as strong?

Yeah, he'd need something better than base-to-base if he's giving up all of his attacks. Not sure if having the small blast template over him would allow him to target that many more enemies? Since they'd probably be pretty packed up close to him due to pile-in. I don't have a small blast temp. with me to check, though.

 

Maybe crib off the old Grey Knight's Holocaust power? If he sacrifices his attacks, he gets to place a small blast template anywhere in base contact with himself - it'd offer a bit more control and hit a few more guys.

 

Ok, the only problem I see is that Deinos has to assault what he shoots, but still it's nice to have the off chance option, and the problem would be on the player's own planning.

 

Consider it done, I'll put an entry for the special rule explaining all the wargear transfers below ^_^ I assume the Strength/AP is correct? Sadly don't have the BA codex :(

Yeah, the assault-what-he-shoots stops the melta from being over-powerful, non-Transport vehicles would be a bad target for him since they'd waste his assault phase. I guess he'd love trashing a Chimera then attacking the Guardsman inside, though :P

 

The AP of the weapon's 1, other than that you've got it right. Compiled the fire-modes into a template:

The Burning Hands

(Spread)	Template	4	5	Assault 2
(Focus)	6"	8	1	Assault 1, Melta, Twin-linked

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Yeah, he'd need something better than base-to-base if he's giving up all of his attacks. Not sure if having the small blast template over him would allow him to target that many more enemies? Since they'd probably be pretty packed up close to him due to pile-in. I don't have a small blast temp. with me to check, though.

 

Maybe crib off the old Grey Knight's Holocaust power? If he sacrifices his attacks, he gets to place a small blast template anywhere in base contact with himself - it'd offer a bit more control and hit a few more guys.

 

Heh, that gave me an awesome mental image of Deinos slapping people around for a while then, when too many people pile up, he just activates his full flamer's power :woot:

 

Checked the small template though, yeah, probably not my best suggestion as it basicly covers base to base contact. Hmmm. With pile-in, unless it's a large unit the template will still go a little wasted. What if we allow him to fire his flamer once while in CC?

 

Yeah, the assault-what-he-shoots stops the melta from being over-powerful, non-Transport vehicles would be a bad target for him since they'd waste his assault phase. I guess he'd love trashing a Chimera then attacking the Guardsman inside, though :P

 

The AP of the weapon's 1, other than that you've got it right. Compiled the fire-modes into a template:

The Burning Hands

(Spread)	Template	4	5	Assault 2
(Focus)	6"	8	1	Assault 1, Melta, Twin-linked

That's perfect, and settled. Thanks, Rev ^_^

[Elric the Silvercoat]

I like the idea of using it where you can put the Small blast template in base contact with him and it hits anyone under it. You could always have it where you roll a scatter dice to see which way its on his base and with a hit you can choose where to put it. Showing the fickle nature of Chaos. And when he loseing one wound you can incease the number of templates by one. And when he loses two he can use one Large blast template. And with the Scatter dice rule it wouldn't be a huge advanctage.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I like the idea of using it where you can put the Small blast template in base contact with him and it hits anyone under it. You could always have it where you roll a scatter dice to see which way its on his base and with a hit you can choose where to put it. Showing the fickle nature of Chaos. And when he loseing one wound you can incease the number of templates by one. And when he loses two he can use one Large blast template. And with the Scatter dice rule it wouldn't be a huge advanctage.

Ok, maybe I'm delusional and the small template in base contact is the way to go :(

 

Have to say no to the 'as he gains wounds he gains power' idea, it simply doesn't fit with his fluff - he literally fights until he's suffeciently wounded and pulls himself together, regardless of pain or damage, not get angry or anything like that :)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I like the idea of using it where you can put the Small blast template in base contact with him and it hits anyone under it. You could always have it where you roll a scatter dice to see which way its on his base and with a hit you can choose where to put it. Showing the fickle nature of Chaos. And when he loseing one wound you can incease the number of templates by one. And when he loses two he can use one Large blast template. And with the Scatter dice rule it wouldn't be a huge advanctage.

I'd be concerned that scattered placement of the template would throw off the 'balance' between using the template and just punching the enemy; if he's at the front of a unit, allies behind him and enemies in front, he'd basically have a 50/50 chance of attack the enemy or his allies.

Ok, maybe I'm delusional and the small template in base contact is the way to go :P

 

Have to say no to the 'as he gains wounds he gains power' idea, it simply doesn't fit with his fluff - he literally fights until he's suffeciently wounded and pulls himself together, regardless of pain or damage, not get angry or anything like that ^_^

Hmmm, didja check how many it'd cover if he's, say, fighting enough foes to have at least two rows pressed up to him? Most of the games I've played have been against Orks/'Nids, so I've got a skewed view of this :P. If the enemy aren't dense enough for that to happen, then chances are he'd be better off just S5 punching 'em. Not sure if firing in combat would help, since he'd only really be able to target enemies with the narrow end of the template.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Ok, maybe I'm delusional and the small template in base contact is the way to go :P

 

Have to say no to the 'as he gains wounds he gains power' idea, it simply doesn't fit with his fluff - he literally fights until he's suffeciently wounded and pulls himself together, regardless of pain or damage, not get angry or anything like that ;)

Hmmm, didja check how many it'd cover if he's, say, fighting enough foes to have at least two rows pressed up to him? Most of the games I've played have been against Orks/'Nids, so I've got a skewed view of this :P. If the enemy aren't dense enough for that to happen, then chances are he'd be better off just S5 punching 'em. Not sure if firing in combat would help, since he'd only really be able to target enemies with the narrow end of the template.

Yes, but in a nid or ork game, chances are there are other nearby units which can get hit, or at least that's what I'm thinking

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I suppose, although that might make it a rarely used power. In my experience, at least, a squishy unit tends to dive in first as a bigger thing (which isn't too worried about flamers) follows up. My instinct would be to focus on making the power useful in Deinos' current combat.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Ok, template in CC it is. I'll try this out in a week and a day, probably against Orks and DE :)

[Bannus]

...In keeping with the name of his chapter, Deinos's gauntlets were permenantly wreathed in flames from gas jets built into his vambraces.

 

Sorry for the late response on this. :tu:

 

I think you may be taking his vambraces a bit too far. There is no mention of him being equipped with flamers - but 'gas jets'....which implies to me....well, 'gas jets'. They may provide a bit of heat and light - but they are nothing like flamers (can you say 'jello gasoline'?). Gas jets built into vambraces that keep the hand encased in flame does not imply any kind of 'projectile' weapon capability.

 

if anything, I would think that they would provide some kind of close-combat bonus (blind/confuse maybe?) and perhaps extra damage to opponents wearing something less than power armor (as they catch fire from contact).

 

If they did have some kind of 'flamer' aspect, I'd think it would be against opponents in base-to-base contact. Otherwise, it starts to look a lot like Vulkan's gauntlet.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

'snip'

Well, yes, but if that's the case, melta weapons don't work, and neither do half of the weapons used in the 40k universe. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it does have some basis at least. Rule of Cool is what I'm going with here :rolleyes:

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Elevators only have one button in 40k, and it takes the passengers to Over The Top.

 

Fluffwise, you could probably mention that gas jets are simply ornate igniters for the Promethium (a working flamethrower has to have a pilot light to set the fuel on fire, after all). Or not, might be getting too technical.

[*Furyou Miko]

You could, for the melee ability, just take a leaf out of the Necron book.

 

Lords/Overlords have a weapon option called the "Gauntlet of Fire", which is a piece of arcane wargear that lets the Lord reroll to hit AND wound in close combat, then shoots as a flamer at range. Now, that's a little better at the Lord's S5 than the Captain's S4, but you could make it a power weapon as well (intense heat) or give him an extra attack.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Elevators only have one button in 40k, and it takes the passengers to Over The Top.

 

Fluffwise, you could probably mention that gas jets are simply ornate igniters for the Promethium (a working flamethrower has to have a pilot light to set the fuel on fire, after all). Or not, might be getting too technical.

 

If I hadn't just changed my sig, that would go in it

 

Aye, I always imagined it as "This is how he has it when he's hosting a party, this is how he has it when he's crashing one" and just left it at that. Especially true with the melta shot as well - variable settings is just the way to go, fluff and rules :P

 

You could, for the melee ability, just take a leaf out of the Necron book.

 

Lords/Overlords have a weapon option called the "Gauntlet of Fire", which is a piece of arcane wargear that lets the Lord reroll to hit AND wound in close combat, then shoots as a flamer at range. Now, that's a little better at the Lord's S5 than the Captain's S4, but you could make it a power weapon as well (intense heat) or give him an extra attack.

Oooh. Hmmmmmm, I may add a Warptime/GoF-esque reroll as you say. I'd be slightly more inclined to simply let it be with those two rerolls, seeing as it might be pointless for him to swap attacks to the template at some point of overpoweredness. I also don't want him getting too expensive, either - speaking of which, if we throw in both rerolls might it be fair to give this guy 180, 190 points?