igotsmeakabob!! Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Alright, so in our 4e pdf dex DC with a JP had a hefty cost, the same cost as they are now... except they used to have rending, and were controllable with a chaplain. I have a full squad of 10 DC with packs all painted from back in their heyday, but they've been collecting dust since the 5e 'dex, however.. I'd really like to get some use out of them. Is it really as bad as I think it is? Is there some way to make these guys work? Has anyone repeatedly used them with, at the very least, mixed success, making them worth their point cost? Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 small groups decked out...but still. I would just prefer 15xDC w/ Bolters & Rec + LRC = Bucket-O-Dice :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have 5 with JP and power weapons. With Lemartes they smash face. I am considering another 5 man unit with JP's and power weapons but also infernus pistols or plasma pistols for the lols. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've had some success with Lemartes and a smaller group of JP DC, usually 5 or 6. I run them with 2 Power Weapons and a Fist. The trick is to Deep Strike them in the general area you want them to cause havoc in, that way you'll have a some control over them. They are a bit pricey, but when coupled with our Guardian of the Lost they do bring out the hurt. And they look completely bitchin'. :lol: Just need to watch out for low AP weaponry and pie plates when Deep Striking, but that applies to all DC units no matter what their mode of transportation is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Jump Pack DC will never be good- Rage and cost are just too much of limiters. However, as with anything, there are degrees of "good," and determining how much of a sacrifice you're willing to make for a unit you like. The only list I can reasonably see them working in is a DoA-type list that intends to start on the ground most times. Run Devs for fire support and a ton of ASM with a JP Recc tagging along with the DC; give them, say a Fist and a PW, ~7ish guys, and call it a day; it's still stupidly expensive, but it's a reasonably strong hammer and it can keep up with the rest of the army. DC in a transport can be more viable, since you can control their movement more easily, but that's another discussion entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have 5 with JP and power weapons. With Lemartes they smash face. Same here. Only finished painting them recently so only used them once where unfortunately they got ambushed by a huge unit of Nid Warriors with Lashwhips :P In future I think they will definitely need to travel in a Stormraven as it is far too easy for them to become isolated or be kited around the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I regularly use Astorath with 5 or 6, hammer and two PW, usually deepstriking in a DoA army supporting Vanguard and ASM squads. They smash face. Drop them in a good position so they threaten the charge next turn. Asty can soak a few hits with his 2+/4+ and against small arms the rest are basically 2+ equiv. There is so much going on with the rest of the Melta and VV Alphastrike that the opponent just can't deal with them without suffering. 8 WS5 Str5 I5 rerolling everything and a WS5 Thunderhammer rerolling everything is just brutal or almost anything. Dreadknights, Trygons, ICs, whatever. I would say 10 is waaay overkill, 5 or 6 Chaplain is amazing. Same cost as a 10 Marine Assault squad, far more potent in combat, and you have to pick an HQ anyway, might as well be a JP Chaplain or the Grim. They're the Hammer to the Anvil. Once you get over the fact that yes your squad is half the size for the same cost you can field 10 ASMs, play them anyway and you won't look back...they're just that much more potent! Costwise, there are things that seem just as good available to us but once you add in the Priest support or Transport necessary to get them into play (Dreads) they aren't as cost effective or reliable as Jump Pack DC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 DC in a transport can be more viable, since you can control their movement more easily, but that's another discussion entirely. Only while they are inside the transport. Speaking of transports, if there's one thing I've found after trying many variations of DC it's that I'd rather have an Infernus pistol than a power weapon. Having a way to deal with armor in the shooting phase is a huge advantage. The problems and advantages of JP DC are those of DoA units in general, only more extreme due to rage and how much they cost. The most important factors being your deployment and opponents ability to counter massed FnP power armor. I find all-or-nothing lists to be fun, and going to extremes can leave your opponent without any real counter. An example of this is a 20-man JP DC with 2 fists, 2 IP and Lemartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviox Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've been thinking of creating an effective list without priests (yes - without any!) and I'm thinking of following units: -DC led by Lemartes -Couple of terminator squads -Dreadnought(s) -Compulsory troops from tacticals, for capturing objectives -Either deep striking everything (drop pods for the tacticals and dreads) OR giving some heavy armor for transports, i.e. a couple of land raiders for the terminators, DC following in their cover basically. Or maybe give a storm raven to the DC and dread(s). Could this work? Light weaponry would be almost useless against this force and it packs some punch for certain... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster lisander Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 i run a 6 man DC with JP and power weapons with Lemartes at the front, i have to say they have been devastating and they earn their points. as said befor they are a bit heft in cost but youll get your moneys worth out of them. just keep in mind no matter how good a unit its it always comes down to the dice roles, you may end up with an amazing game or a horrible point sink that is gone within the first round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2974894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have 5 with JP and power weapons. With Lemartes they smash face. Same here. Only finished painting them recently so only used them once where unfortunately they got ambushed by a huge unit of Nid Warriors with Lashwhips :) In future I think they will definitely need to travel in a Stormraven as it is far too easy for them to become isolated or be kited around the battlefield. I start with the Dc on the table pushed up behind some cover so they can't see anything and proceed to jump them from cover to cover until I'm ready for them to strike. If the opponent wishes to try and kite them around they will need to get within 18". That's assault range for JP's. It also means ... Smash face! 3 'friendly' games and they have smashed face multiple times. I'm kicking myself for not including them in a recent, and my first ever, tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2975483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 My legacy models get used fairly often. I don't see the downsides most others here do. Points cost is very high. True, but the jump packs minimize the downsides of the Black Rage. Descent of Angels also helps minimize the downsides of jump packs as well. By deep striking and only deviating 6" maximum, Black Rage is more or less not a factor. Feel No Pain helps against any shooting that might be nearby, making the unit very resilient. I've only got 1 guy with a power fist; everybody else is just CCW and bolt pistol. I think squads less than 5 are a waste, while scaling up to 10-11 men will overwhelm just about anything my regular opponents can field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245900-death-co-with-jump-packs/#findComment-2976324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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