Lord Ragnarok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm surprised no one mentioned the short story "Forgotten Sons" in the "Age of Darkness" Book. There is a point where a Salamander remembers what happened on Istvaan. The end of the memory Vulkan...SPOILER!!!! DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO READ ON YOUR OWN..... Vulkan is throwing tanks around like tonka toys when finally he is obliterated from site by a missle blast. Given the history we know after this event, he survived the blast somehow. Maybe he was covered with dirt/debris or left for dead only to awake and recover from his wounds. I really want to know the outcome. This is the final loose end of what happened to the Drop Site Massacre loyalist Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2978670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I did mention it, mate. =) It's a great part of that story, and that strength, coupled with Vulkan's somewhat discrete/timid and understanding personality, provides great material for a story in which he's imprisoned and subject to a great deal of mind-beat, until he finally snaps and elbow drops an entire fortress. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2979128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbdevega Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Its known that less then a dozen Salamander other then Vulkan made it out of the Drop Site Massacre, i heard that even less then a handful of Iron Hands walked away... Now what i find interesting sense the begining is that way in the day when the fluff was still being built, the Second founding happened almost right after the siege of Terra. As to fluff Vulkan was there! so its almost as if Vulkan was somehow teleported off the planet to some safe location where he could of made it back to the Imperium. other thoughts, we know very little of how the handful of Iron Hands made it out alive so they could have recovered Vulkan, highly unlikely thought as ive heard Iron Hands hold bad blood with the Salamanders and Raven Guard and blame them for retreating and costing them there Primarch. I think the best direction for this one is going to be Vulkan has some insane technology on him that allows him to do stuff that few in the Imperium have ever seen before. How else could a guy this popular hide stuff all over the galaxy for his Chapter to find without anyone noticing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2980725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It was known unless you have access to information we don't the HH books are changing the old fluff. Where are you getting the dozen sallies getting off world? The Iron Hands lost every marine on Istvaan as well as Ferrus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2981457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbdevega Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It was known unless you have access to information we don't the HH books are changing the old fluff. Where are you getting the dozen sallies getting off world? The Iron Hands lost every marine on Istvaan as well as Ferrus. Old fluff, i have yet to read anything in the new fluff that has yet to change these numbers. In fact i find the new fluff just as vague as the old fluff on how any loyalist survived the Drop Site Massacre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2981524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It was known unless you have access to information we don't the HH books are changing the old fluff. Where are you getting the dozen sallies getting off world? The Iron Hands lost every marine on Istvaan as well as Ferrus. Well, there's still a Salamanders Chapter, despite all (or at least the vast majority) of the Legion being on Istvaan. While the Iron Hands on Istvaan were wiped out, that's because that was only a fraction of their Legion, and they didn't withdraw from the trap like the Salamanders/Raven Guard tried to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2981733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 According to - I think - Fulgrim, some Iron Hands did withdraw. Or at least tried to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2981803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 According to - I think - Fulgrim, some Iron Hands did withdraw. Or at least tried to. I went back and looked at the last passages of the battle (In Fulgrim) and it states that some of the Iron Hands regrouped and broke out with the few surviving Salamanders. As for Vulkan it says that there was no sign of him. But we do know from older fluff that he survives somehow and opposes the breakup of the legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmarine Andreas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Whatever we eventually find out about Vulkans survival and escape from Istvaan I hope its as truelly as epic as some of the scenarios i can imagine. Im imagining a broken and bloodied Vulkan dragged from the Field of Battle and imprisoned by one of the Traitor Legions. Im kind of hping its the Emperors Children. Hes shackled and restrained somewhere deep in a Fortres or Battlebarge and continously forced to witness the the horror of the continuing Heresy. Human Populations exterminated, his own warriors brought before him to be tortured to death. For the most humane of all the Primarchs this even more than teh constant physical torture he is subjected to is gradually breaking his mind. But all the while his anger, hatred and resolve is building. And at some point somebody get careless. Then its "Hulk Smash" time. Have wonderful mental images of an insane with grief and rage Vulkan rampaging through a Traitor Legions Stronghold. Who knows who else he may encounter/free and what form his actual escape and return to the Imperium may take. But I just feel its going to be good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 He's down in current lore as first being MIA then he was at Terra when Bob revealed the Codex. Don't be surprised to see it ret-conned to say he was the second Primarch to perish in the flames of Istvaan. As much as I love the Primarchs but as soon as this post has posted, i'm done with talk of Primarchs and what happend to them. GW won't touch 'em these days so it's kinda lost the magic for me what with C'tan star gods roaming about but that's something for a different time, a different thread and maybe a different forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes, he's MIA at the current point in time, which is basically as soon as Corax reaches Terra, and he had a whole fleet to help him. Nothing has been discussed about Vulkan, other than he went missing during the Istvaan Massacre. Let's wait until another, recent source still has him missing long after the immediate aftermath before we start calling 'retcon'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 He turns into a chameleon and is a GK GM Elite? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Im imagining a broken and bloodied Vulkan dragged from the Field of Battle and imprisoned by one of the Traitor Legions. Im kind of hping its the Emperors Children. Hes shackled and restrained somewhere deep in a Fortres or Battlebarge and continously forced to witness the the horror of the continuing Heresy. Human Populations exterminated, his own warriors brought before him to be tortured to death. For the most humane of all the Primarchs this even more than teh constant physical torture he is subjected to is gradually breaking his mind. But all the while his anger, hatred and resolve is building. And at some point somebody get careless. Then its "Hulk Smash" time. Have wonderful mental images of an insane with grief and rage Vulkan rampaging through a Traitor Legions Stronghold. Yeah I already brought that idea to the table earlier, but it is really unique and interesting thing they can do with his Character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2982786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Im imagining a broken and bloodied Vulkan dragged from the Field of Battle and imprisoned by one of the Traitor Legions. Im kind of hping its the Emperors Children. Hes shackled and restrained somewhere deep in a Fortres or Battlebarge and continously forced to witness the the horror of the continuing Heresy. Human Populations exterminated, his own warriors brought before him to be tortured to death. For the most humane of all the Primarchs this even more than teh constant physical torture he is subjected to is gradually breaking his mind. But all the while his anger, hatred and resolve is building. And at some point somebody get careless. Then its "Hulk Smash" time. Have wonderful mental images of an insane with grief and rage Vulkan rampaging through a Traitor Legions Stronghold. Yeah I already brought that idea to the table earlier, but it is really unique and interesting thing they can do with his Character. I,ll admit I did not like this idea at first bit it has grown on me. Imagine vulkan on terra as the EC "play" with the population. During the retreat of the attacking legions he escapes spends some time helping the people of terra rebuild until found by one of his brothers. It puts him on terra for the codex it would explain the artifacts he scattered and I'd like to see him gather the far flung marines of his legion and start teaching them the codex as the warp storms calm down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2983355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbdevega Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 A thought just occurred to me, in older fluff Vulkan returned to Nocturne and the Salamanders are not noted for the rest of the Heresy because its stated "Vulkan was too busy trying to rebuild the Legion". What if in the new fluff the Salamanders are knocked out of the rest of the Hesery simply because Vulkan is not recoved by the Imperium of Man untill after the Hesery is over with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2983391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's actually my preferred explanation for his disappearance, as it's the most realistic, but sadly it's a terrible choice from a marketing perspective, so of course GW won't do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2983630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus25 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I like to think that he was injured on Istavaan but was taken to a place that had a recovery tank kinda machine and was so injured it would take along time to heal him so his items here left as clues to find this place to release him. Maybe the items are even needed to release him. Just my fan-boy opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2983868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lividjoker Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Wouldn't his fate also depend on what happen to the Pyre Guard? They would be more than willing to give their lives to let him escape and from what I recall from said short story they were with him when he dissappeared from sight. So unless we find out what happend to them we shan't really know what happend to him during the peroid. More than likely the Alpha Legion will have somthing to do with it, again. But if we also recall the short story about the Raven Guard on Istavaan when Angron is hunting down Corax Vulkan is never mentioned- to be honest the only thing about them mentioned is the single ship that the World Eaters are chasing. Nor his he mentioned in Aurelian during the part which is set on Istavaan. So he must have escaped at somepoint after the blast and before the Traitors consolodation. Just my thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2983955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I understood the curret fluff to be that no-one ever saw him again after Istvaan, and that the Sallies were effectively MIA for the remainder of the Heresy because, like the Iron Hands, there were simply too few of them to be an effective force, plus presumably they were thrown by the disappearance of their Primarch. I like to think that with his gift for prophecy, Vulkan knew on some level this would happen, and either got himself to somewhere his children need to find at the Time of Ending before he died or was somehow frozen in time. That's wha the Nine relics are about - even if Vulkan didn't realize it fully when he set them up. I hope he hasn't been active, even somewhere where he wouldn't age like the EoT all this time as that would seem silly to me. I'd love it if he were to return, if they were ever to progress the story significantly, but not if the explanation is "he's been locked in a cell in the EoT all this time" or "he's been pitfighting with daemons in THE WARP NONSTOP for 10,000 years" like some Draigo knock off. He needs to have been trapped in statis or something, where in the end he KNEW he'd be found when needed, and he KNEW the Sallies needed to grow without him to play their role in the end. The whole Promethean Creed is that have to be tested on the anvil and undergo hard experiences to grow - hence his prophecy style of leaving clues that are vague and only reveal what people need to know at the time. I don't believe he knew of the Heresy, or of what would happen at Istvaan, but he had been acting on intuitions in the lead up to it that all crystalized during the Massacre, which is why he disappeared during it or immediately afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2984457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaze07 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 well said Aegnor ,they have to do something with him he's one of the best of the primarchs!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2984511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, we've got an outright quote from First Founding, a Deathwatch supplement, that "the ultimate fate of the Salamander's Primarch is a mystery, for he disappeared long after the Horus Heresy. Some sources say that Vulkan led his Chapter for three entire millenia before he departed on some mission he never declared to the Imperium at large, though scant evidence of any of his deeds throughout that age remain". Unfortunately, it makes no comment as to how Vulkan survived, or what the Salamanders did, although it's important to note that they reinforce that the Salamanders had no Successor Chapters formed during the Second Founding, so however much they recovered their numbers, they never reached 2000. I'm definitely voting for "got mauled so badly they had to sit out most of the Heresy, only taking part in skirmishes defending the occasional Imperial population." I'd actually like to see a book on them now, although focussing far more on Vulkan, and how he copes with the fact that he, one of the most humanitarian of the Primarchs, is forced to sit idly by while Horus carves through the Imperium, for as much as he wants to save the civilians, he can't bring himself to sacrifice his sons, and still every civilian death is a new betrayal to him... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2984587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hmmm, as an aside I really hate that they introduce major new fluff like that in Deathwatch, which I don't play (and the books of which I can't afford *just* for the fluff). That's news to me, but it's been made pretty clear that the FFG stuff IS canon unless directly contradicted by GW itself. If that's the case, given in Age of Darkness it was implied he hadn't been seen since Istvaan, I'm waiting for a cracking story about how he gets back to the Salamanders! Might tweet Nick Kyme and ask him what he thinks! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2985024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FragEmAll Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Just a random little thing but if you read the Rhino Entry in the SM Codex it mentions the 'Hammer of Nocturne' - an 8,000 year old Rhino that carried Vulkan into battle at the Siege of Devlans Fortress versus Word Bearers. Definately after the Heresy, so unless this is some random error that got through the GW Fluff Police, we do know that Vulkan survived Istvann and was laying the hurt on those pesky Word Bearers 2,000 years afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2985477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger87 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 One thing people are forgetting is that the entire legions werent at istvaan to be destroyed. Similarly to the Raven Guard leaving a retinue back home, so did the Sallies and Iron Hands (probably). Keep in mind that if legions are cca 100.000 leaving behind just 1% would be enough for a chapter come the Second founding. Obviously the whole HH and seige of terra have to happen in between so it definitely wouldn't be 1%, but it is doubtful the entire legions were destroyed. When the traitors say destroyed, they mean effectively. So they no longer pose a threat. It doesn't mean that a crusade force that was on the other side of the galaxy making some obscure planet compliant (and maybe knows nnothing about any heresy at all) may be alive. That actually makes it even more interesting, as if it were the case with one of these,, the guys that would continue the tradition would be the ones that missed out on the Heresy-dont have the personal connection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2985521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Lots of love on this thread for Vulkan, hopefully AD-B is sitting back, drinking a latte in his golden tower atop Mount Olympia, monocle gentle resting in his pocket after intense use during a game of chess with Dan Abnett. Browsing the Interwebay, he will come upon our humble request that Vulkan gets to elbow drop something, and summon Nick Kyme to whip out the enchanted loom he uses when writing and begin crafting yet another Salamanders story with his 'slowely-turning-green' fingers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245910-oh-vulkan-where-art-thou/page/2/#findComment-2986442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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