Henchmen army, how to tweak it?

[Pirog]

Yo!

I'm planning my next army, being a Grey Knights henchmen army. I could use some tips and tricks. But first my thoughts, to let you know my idea of the army.

 

- It will be a shooty army, mostly because I like the conversions of the warrior acolytes I've made. Therefore I will not use any Deathcults etc at all! ONLY Warrior Acolytes as far as it goes.

- This is a henchmen only army. No Grey Knights, no Paladins etc.

- The mech I will use is any of the tanks. Chimera, Rhino, Razorback, Landraider and Stormraven.

- I will allow dreadnoughts in the army.

- I want a nice and cool looking army for the fluff I've got, but that doesn't erase the fact that I would like it to be competitive too. However, I won't use anything that's not logical like the 3x warriors in tanks just to get out alot on the tanks on the field etc. You feel me?

 

So. The first problem I've met while making my 500p starting list is the following:

 

Is jokaeros a waste of points in a group of warriors with meltas?

 

This is my list atm:

Coteaz - 100p

 

9 Warriors,stormbolter, 3x melta

1 jakero

Chimera

186p

 

10 Warriors,stormbolter, 3x melta

2 jakero

Chimera

214p

 

500p

 

Adding another jokaero to the first squad when going for 750p. However I've had some people tell me putting out - in this list - a total of 105p on jokaeros is a waste when not being able to use there heavy weapons if I need to move the meltas in range. Despite the possible upgrades to the warriors.

As Warriors will be like the solid ground of my whole army through and through I would like the most optimal build for them. What are your thoughts?

 

As a side note, I'm thinking of adding a unit like the following later or maybe trade one of my warrior units for it already at 500p.

 

1 Inquisitor

3 servitor, 3x heavy bolter

1 warrior, stormbolter

2 jokaero

Chimera

177p

 

Thoughts on that? (Filling up the rest of the seats in the Chimera with more warriors when possible).

[Myxx]

I am also making a henchman army, so I have been down this road as well. IMHO I feel that Jokaero and meltas work at cross purposes. Also, I feel that Jokaero should be fielded in pairs. Twice the heavy weapons, invul saves and no chance of a 1 on the customization roll. As to your final unit with HB servitors, that is almost the exact squad I plan to use with Coteaz. 3 HB, 2 lascannons from the Jokaero, and whatever warriors you bulk up with makes for a good round of shooting with the "I've been expecting you..."

[Pirog]

Thanks for a quick response!

 

So you'd say stick with the jokaeros? I also feel that the squad is a good stand a shoot, but if needed can sacrifice the heavy weapons a round to move the meltas in range to pop some dangerous looking tank.

Aye, fielding the jokaeros in pairs is the plan.

[Something Wycked]

I think he was mentioning that the meltas and Jokers shouldn't be in the same unit, but in a dedicated stationary long-range unit, they'd do fine.

 

Meltas want to be moving to get up close; Jokers want to stay back, make good use of their range, and remain stationary to fire.

[Myxx]

correct Wycked. Not to sound snarky, but if you want a "shooty" army, you should stay away from Assault weapons. I would put the 2 monkeys in the same squad as the bolter servitors, and Coteaz. Make that your stationary fire base, and put the melta warriors in a unit with, say Crusaders, in a Chimera. Then you have a squad that can rush into battle, with melta, PW and SS, and whatever you arm your transport with.

[Pirog]

In other words, it's not worth to maybe have to sacrifice their stationary fire for a turn or two, for going long range meltas, rendings or any other upgrade?

No jokaeros with the warriors is the way to go aye?

[Myxx]

if most games are between 5 and 7 turns, losing 2 turns of heavy weapons shooting in the off chance of getting rending, etc. is a pretty expensive trade.

[Pirog]

But sacrificing the shots would only be made if I can get meltas in range instead of course.

 

But otherwise, as I am not fond of going with crusaders, deathcults etc (could maybe convert crusaders with some kind of "swat-shields" to fit my theme tho) how would you build the warrior squads?

[Something Wycked]

Heavy Weapons servitors of one sort or another, a pair of Jokers, and probably Stormbolters or AP3 Lasguns depending on your local meta. I'd lean towards the AP3 if you face a lot of MEQ, and I'd lean towards the Stormbolters if there's more GEQ. Of course, a mixture of the two in a unit wouldn't hurt, either.

[GOFADK]

- It will be a shooty army, mostly because I like the conversions of the warrior acolytes I've made.

Would you please uploade som pic of your Acolytes? :tu:

[Pirog]

- It will be a shooty army, mostly because I like the conversions of the warrior acolytes I've made.

Would you please uploade som pic of your Acolytes? :ph34r:

 

I'll try to remember that tomorrow. Only have a testmodel done yet but I'll see if I can get a decent pic of him. :lol:

[The Holy Heretic]

Heavy Weapons servitors of one sort or another, a pair of Jokers, and probably Stormbolters or AP3 Lasguns depending on your local meta. I'd lean towards the AP3 if you face a lot of MEQ, and I'd lean towards the Stormbolters if there's more GEQ. Of course, a mixture of the two in a unit wouldn't hurt, either.

 

1/6 shots will kill a MEQ, with a hotshot lasgun.

 

1/12 shots will kill a MEQ with stormbolters.

 

Now factor in the increased price, lost mobility,and range - and that you don't want your sqishy warrior acolytes within assault range of any type of MEQ, and that the storm bolter works better against GEQs - I find that there is no competition at all :)

[Pirog]

As someone asked me to put up pictures of the Warrior Acolyte, here he is.

Don't mind the barrels, they will be drilled out.

 

Scout body, necron head with lower jaw removed and rearranging the barrel and adding another one on the bolter for a lazy ass stormbolter conversion. Simple enough, bit fits my theme and the fluff I'm working on for these guys. I like the intimidating look of him and look forward to having a bunch of similar looking guys.

 

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/Pirog123/Inq1.jpg

 

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/Pirog123/Inq2.jpg

[Capt_Darius]

I really like this. Totally going to steal this if I end up giving my warrior acolyte cultists carapace armor (Planing a Sons of Malice cultist army using GK Henchmen and some GKs as SoM as they both hunt Chaos)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I don't field Henchmen without a pair of Jokaero. Yes, they are expensive, but the storm bolter and melta dudes they accompany are so cheap, even after factoring in the Rhino or Chimera you field (I like Chimera for front AV and more models firing, but 'Fortitude' is sexy as well), you still only average the same price as a mechanised Tactical squad.

 

In the early game, cheap spammable lascannon is awesome. Henchmen (aside from servitors) suffer from the same '24 is all you can shoot' syndrome as Knights. Being able to reach out and hurt things Turn 1 is very handy. I don't field PsyDreads with Henchmen for that reason, the Jokaero are filling in and are 'hidden' inside squads, as opposed to being obvious and singular targets like Dreads are.

 

When you camp an objective, and the enemy wants to take it from you (typically using close-combat units, as your shooting prowess rivals Marines when properly equipped), the multi-melta is very handy for slagging walkers and transports. It also promotes a zone of 'you don't wanna be here' for enemy tanks, but unlike on Tac squads where you can't shoot anything else if they're out of range, you can still shoot lascannon. I don't often use the multi-melta, but having that option is handy.

 

If moving in a Chimera/Rhino, or disembarking to unleash on an enemy-held objective, the heavy flamer morph is awesome. Ignoring cover is huge against certain armies, and even with storm bolter your Henchmen sometimes struggle to put wounds on target (due to BS3 and casualties mounting up pretty quickly in protracted firefights). Two heavy flamers will swing your fight against most infantry short of Terminators/FNP, and against those really tough targets you have melta/plasma spam anyway.

 

Servitors on the other hand are kinda 0-1 option. The requirement (check the FAQ, GW really are that retarded) of an Inquisitor attached to prevent the dreaded 'Mindlock' (close to the worst rule in 40k, short of 'Rage'), and the obvious problem of there usually being only 1 Inquisitor (if you're taking two, you are silly, take Coteaz, and very few people burn their second HQ slot if they already have Coteaz), means you'll only have the one shooty unit. Triple plasma cannon is what I recommend, heavy bolter is a waste of time and multi-melta doesn't have the reach you need to be true fire support.

Combat servitors are complete trash, before you ask.

 

As far as armour goes, I don't see the point upgrading your Henchmen. Carapace is still only a 4+ (and there is plenty of AP4 or high ROF anti-infantry out there to tear it down), and power armour puts them into Marine price range whilst being worse in every conceivable way than a Grey Hunter or Tac Marine. Save those points for their transport, a Rhino or Chimera bunker will work out much better IMO.

[breng77]

While I'm not certain why Acolytes + jokero work, but DCA are out. Also It seems to me that you would be better running the kind of army you want using IG, but that aside.

 

First off I'm not a big fan of jokero, they are very expensive for BS3 heavy weapons, that sometimes help your squad. You are also putting a limit on yourself by taking full squads of Henchmen in many ways (unless you plan to disembark extra guys are just ablative wounds(especially for melta teams, they want to get close and then they probably die, I could see rationalizing 3 guys in a "infiltrating" demolitions squad sent in to disrupt the enemy. You mention fluff but honestly I have no idea what your fluff is, so kind of hard to know where to go with keeping it to your fluff. But here is what I would do.

 

500 points

 

Cotaez 100

 

5 Acolytes w/3 meltaguns and melta bombs in Psybolt Razorback

 

2 x 5 Storm Bolter Acolytes in Chimeras

 

2 Bolter acolytes and 3 Multi melta servitors in a Chimera

 

Comes in at 500 points

 

I really think Jokero are too expensive at 500 points if you also want Vehicles, and you don't really need them as you are unlikely to see more than 2 vehicles in most armies.

[Souba]

how about techmarines? got to field them as admech ones instead of GK and add some conversion beamers/orbital strike relays into your shooty units may be a viable option.

[Myxx]

I plan to add a tech marine w/ orbital strike and some servo skulls to my henchman build. OSR gives a decent artillery platform and skulls give a good initial area denial and/or DS target for 9 points...

[spartan249]

I'm thinking that a squad of 10 warriors with storm bolters and 2 Jokaero is enough to bring the pain for the points expended. I think you should skip on the meltas in henchmen squads because of the nature of the other weapons in the squad. Maximize your henchmens' ability to engage other enemy infantry (with stand-off anti-tank capability) and leave the dedicated anti-heavy armor to Stormravens/Dreadnoughts/Land Raiders. Besides, I think the two Lascannons are enough anti-tank capability for the 140 points you expend on said squad to hold up.

 

In addition to that, I would definitely find room for that techmarine for the 3+ cover saves for the henchmen. I would also include the Librarian for Shrouding purposes, but that goes directly against your wishes, so I suppose 3+ cover for the defending squads will have to suffice.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

While I'm not certain why Acolytes + jokero work, but DCA are out. Also It seems to me that you would be better running the kind of army you want using IG, but that aside.

 

Maybe. I wouldn't say IG are everyone's cup of tea. You don't just have to Chimera spam, you have in invest in Vendettas and Russes as well. Not to mention your HQ choices are far more lackluster than for Henchmen (who can have a Knight character sneak in, like a Grandmaster or more commonly Librarian).

 

First off I'm not a big fan of jokero, they are very expensive for BS3 heavy weapons, that sometimes help your squad. You are also putting a limit on yourself by taking full squads of Henchmen in many ways (unless you plan to disembark extra guys are just ablative wounds(especially for melta teams, they want to get close and then they probably die, I could see rationalizing 3 guys in a "infiltrating" demolitions squad sent in to disrupt the enemy. You mention fluff but honestly I have no idea what your fluff is, so kind of hard to know where to go with keeping it to your fluff.

 

They are the cheapest heavy weapons in the game, bar none. BS3 is annoying, but when you have an entire army of them (which as I demonstrated, is perfectly feasible and leaves you with a vehicle+bodycount between that of typical MeQ and IG armies), it changes things. You also gloss over the fact that they can morph weapons, which is something no other fire support unit can do. Heavy flamers don't use BS, so at close range, they can boost your anti-infantry firepower immensely (and with Chimeras, you can get them into range pretty easily).

I don't think you can get away with minimum units of Henchmen. The Jokaero benefits get better the more models they affect, and the one thing Jokaero+melta/plasma squads can't handle easily is infantry. Stormbolters, even without the Jokaero upgrade, are cheap and with enough of them, you can threaten even Marines (especially if you roll the Rending upgrade). Cutting out the extra bodies doesn't even give you many points to play with, you just end up gimping your scoring units of any staying power whatsoever. They are glorified Guardsmen, but more bodies mean more wounds have to inflicted to wipe them out/make them fall back.

Suicide melta is for IG, we can equip our Troops to be more flexible and useful. To pass up the oppertunity and just ape mechmelta-Vets is silly. You might as well be IG in that case.

 

I'm thinking that a squad of 10 warriors with storm bolters and 2 Jokaero is enough to bring the pain for the points expended. I think you should skip on the meltas in henchmen squads because of the nature of the other weapons in the squad. Maximize your henchmens' ability to engage other enemy infantry (with stand-off anti-tank capability) and leave the dedicated anti-heavy armor to Stormravens/Dreadnoughts/Land Raiders. Besides, I think the two Lascannons are enough anti-tank capability for the 140 points you expend on said squad to hold up.

 

If you don't take the triple melta/plasma, you are just left with the Jokaero and storm bolters. Given how cheap it is to upgrade to the three special weapons, it's unwise to pass it up.

[spartan249]

I didn't oppose the notion of Plasmas in acos (that modifies the price a little bit) as I'm all for stuff that's AP2 and 24" range and all, but meltas are already covered by the Jokaero when it comes down to it IMO.