Mercy 0f Spades Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Howdy B&C! So.... am I reading this wrong or can our Ravenwing bikers not turbo boost during their Scout move? Is that right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAM77 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah, sadly they cannot. Its a case of codex super-ceding BRB, and our codex is getting old :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2975439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Every bike with teleport beacon + deathwing assault = supacombo of deth. Or so GW thinks. The no turboost is a matter of balance I guess. All it takes is play a few games with turboscout and see what happens... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2975682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy 0f Spades Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bummer. Well, that sucks... At least they can Outflank :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2975743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hehe...yeah...turboboosting from the edge of your deployment zone to the edge of his deployment zone. Now you can drop your deepest termie 3" off the board edge without scatter! As things stand, a single squadron or demisquadron can reasonably drop one squad 3" outside the enemy's deployment zone...even dropping two of them backs them up a few inches and has them getting in each other's way. With turbo-scouting, a single attack bike can jet into position to spirit in 3 squads in battle-ready formation in the heart of the enemy deployment zone! I dunno about you, but I think being able to deploy 15-17 termies in the enemy deployment zone on turn one without scatter (and still have two squads ready to come in behind them, probably also without scatter, since the bike is now the least of the enemy's worries) is...a bit OP. Less OP, and still pretty cool, would be allowing our ELITE scouts (the sergeant, that is) to buy a telehomer as wargear. Still forces some realistic standoff from the enemy (the bikes can actually get you a lot closer unless the scouts are out of LOS), but you get an infiltrating homer for under 100 points. Bonus, you don't deploy your infiltrating homer till after you see the enemy's disposition, which is fantastic if you're deploying first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2976258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 you can turbo boost...its very regional this perspective....you just have to explain to the TO that the 5th ed FAQ about ALL USR over rules the USR of a previous ed codex. Greece and in Sussex, you are alowed to do this (tournaments, not friendly games examples) Edit: FAQ overules both rulebook and codex. Hence its fully official that bikes CAN turbo boost on the scout move Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2976780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 FAQ overules both rulebook and codex. Hence its fully official that bikes CAN turbo boost on the scout move Maybe...I don't have my books in front of me. It depends on whence we derive the position that ravenwing bikes can't scout boost. The main rulebook FAQ overrides the the main rulebook, but not the codex. The codex FAQ overrides the codex, which in turn overrides the main rulebook, so in a way, the codex FAQ overrides the main rulebook indirectly, but the reverse isn't true. So if it's something in the codex that leads us to the position that ravenwing can't scout boost, then unfortunately, the main FAQ, since it only modifies the main rulebook, which is trumped by the codex, has no power to override the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2976948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 FAQ overules both rulebook and codex. Hence its fully official that bikes CAN turbo boost on the scout move Maybe...I don't have my books in front of me. It depends on whence we derive the position that ravenwing bikes can't scout boost. The main rulebook FAQ overrides the the main rulebook, but not the codex. The codex FAQ overrides the codex, which in turn overrides the main rulebook, so in a way, the codex FAQ overrides the main rulebook indirectly, but the reverse isn't true. So if it's something in the codex that leads us to the position that ravenwing can't scout boost, then unfortunately, the main FAQ, since it only modifies the main rulebook, which is trumped by the codex, has no power to override the codex. Correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2976964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So the last word is in the codexes FAQs? Havent thought that before... Good to know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 look, as far as GW is concerned they release the FAQ to their product to correct any indiscrepancies. Also as its fully and perfectly accepted by the community that i play in the bikes can turbo boost in the scout move (as long as i got the FAQ to prove it) my only concern is to all you DA players out there who are nt trying these lists out. You may justify it as you want, in the end what a representative of gw answers will always be the thing that happens, i asked this person via facebook(south european GW managing representative) : "Hey [Name Erased] i got a queestion for you buddy, can a Ravenwing squad turbo boost in the scout move? The codex says it cant, but the 5th ed FAQ states that you CAN turbo boost in scout moves...which is it?" and he replied: "Faq's are bizarre beasts . In theory they out rank codexes and the rulebook . Have it with you and let your opponent know . Its one thing to be able to turbo boost for scout move and a completely different thing to surprise your opponent with it." So once again. This is enough for me to play with the list i want that allowed me to turbo boost in the scout move.... Use this info at youre discretion gentlemen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabbala Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Do not confuse the Errata section with the FAQ. The following is from the GW website, and in my experience most players ignore reading the description and just click to the .pdf "The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book. The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. . . In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yes, though in most cases it seems odd to not use the FAQ as it shows obvious intent from the company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 So many hopes and dreams have been shattered by the "lets roll a die" sentance.... Its up there with "we need to talk" from a girl imo.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 look, as far as GW is concerned they release the FAQ to their product to correct any indiscrepancies. Also as its fully and perfectly accepted by the community that i play in the bikes can turbo boost in the scout move (as long as i got the FAQ to prove it) my only concern is to all you DA players out there who are nt trying these lists out. You may justify it as you want, in the end what a representative of gw answers will always be the thing that happens, i asked this person via facebook(south european GW managing representative) : "Hey [Name Erased] i got a queestion for you buddy, can a Ravenwing squad turbo boost in the scout move? The codex says it cant, but the 5th ed FAQ states that you CAN turbo boost in scout moves...which is it?" and he replied: "Faq's are bizarre beasts . In theory they out rank codexes and the rulebook . Have it with you and let your opponent know . Its one thing to be able to turbo boost for scout move and a completely different thing to surprise your opponent with it." So once again. This is enough for me to play with the list i want that allowed me to turbo boost in the scout move.... Use this info at youre discretion gentlemen I'll exercise my right not to pay him any heed. In my experience, if you ask seven GW employees the same question, you'll get at least seven answers that all contradict one another...nevertheless, people persist in finding a GW employee who will tell them what they want to hear, then insist that it's canon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'll agree with that as when I emailed GW on the same issue I got a firm No RW bikes cannot turbo boost during their scout move, codex trumps BrB. SO until it is in the DA FAQ RW bikes cannot turbo boost during the scout move unless a TO, house rules that they can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2977963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cielaq Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Actually, if you go by the exact wording, then NO units can turbo-boost based on this line in the DA Codex, not just Ravenwing. :angry: Fortunately, I am playing with a very friendly group of guys that have no problem with my RW turbo-boosting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2978607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 DA Codex wording only affects DA units regardless of interpretation. In regards to the question.. it's a bit of dead horse beating... unless they lift up the restriction in FAQ's we still can't turbo-boost. Frankly ,for me, the extra 12" move provided by scout has been sufficient so far... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2978753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The distance is not as big a deal as starting the game with 3+ cover if you could turbo boost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2978787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Well, if you're DWAing off of the bikes, the 3+ cover is pretty equally important with the ability to get multiple DW units exactly where you want them off of a single telehomer... Otherwise, yeah, the save is pretty important. I HATE losing my bikes on the top of turn one for lack of that save!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2978813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 although I'd love to use it if it where possible RW can not scout turboboost and I see why this is so. Playing my usual Deathwing (5 units) and replacing 2 speeders with another RAS would make it possible to scout move 3 units of RW up the field one left, one right and one in the middle, that would enable me to place my units of deathwing doom where ever I liked in the enemy deployment zone on T1. Fun as that would be that would just kill several enemy's because I'd be to close for them to counter. (And don't forget that the RW iunits back a hefty metl punch themselves aswell, they'd blow up tanks and lock units in cc for a turn, supported by the Deathwing CML's and the turn after that 3 units of Deathwing would be in close combat. In a word, it would be broken versus any army mainly dependend on shooting, and although it would greatly boost my current army I can see that it would be a bad idea. To be absolutely clear on how FAQ's rulebook and codexes overruyle eachother; You start with the main rulebook. Errors and unclear bits are fixed in the rulebook FAQ, thus overruling the normal rulebook. Then codexes, they overrule the main rulebook, so that is was possible for example for our DA to have a 4+ in close combat stormshield or thunderhammer while the one in the main rulebook worked differently. Then the DA FAQ overrides the DA codex on certain bits and that is the final word. So how does it work on the turbo boosting in the scout move. Main rulebook; Somewhat unclear on if this is allowed or not. --> Allowed? Unclear! Main rulebook FAQ; Explicitly allows turboboosting in the scout move. --> Allowed? Yes! Dark Angel Codex: has a specific note DISallowing turbo boosting in the scout move. Codex >> Rulebook, so allowed? No! Dark Angel Codex FAQ: Does not change or remove the Codex statement, henche the final verdict; Not allowed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2980025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 @ krewl, How is that interaction that you described between DW/RW any different than C:SM scout bikes and drop pod assault? While I agree with you that it is effective, it is not more effective or even as effective as some other armies alpha strike options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2980343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't really know actually, but I find Deathwing works really well right now. I've played them for some prety impressive tournement results and beeing able to choose to be in charge range T2 from armies like guard would make them even more powerfull, especially on games where I had T1 so I'd have a 5 in 6 chance of dropping, nuking 3 things with meltaguns, shooting 3 x 2 kraks and have next turn assaults lined up. Just seems like it would make my army even more overpowered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/245955-bike-question/#findComment-2981013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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