Anti-IG

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Hi guys. I am interesting in finding more input/advice for fighting IG vehicle spam lists. Before I ask some general questions, here is what I will be using and I am happy with its performance. Originally I had a Chaos Lord and a Dreadnought. Because my vehicles died too much against Dark Eldar lances, I traded both these two units in for the 2 demon princes.

 

(x2) Demon Prince- Nurgle, Wings

(x2) 7 PM's- Melta x2, Pfist, Rhino

7 PM's- Flamer x2, Pfist, Combi-Flamer, Rhino

7 Bikers- Nurgle, Pfist, Meltabombs, Melta x2

(x3) Vindicator- Demonic Possession

 

There's a tournament coming up and after much play-testing, I am confident that my army can handle nearly anything except IG vehicle spam. While I consider myself experienced with Codex: Chaos Space Marines, deployment in particular is rough for me vs. this type of army. Questions arise such as:

 

1. Should the rhinos be deployed behind the vindicators in Pitched Battle with multiple battlefield objectives? Is it worth giving my vital troops' transport a cover save and risking limited mobility if the vindicators are wrecked early because they are in front?

 

2. Should the vindicators be deployed behind the rhinos in order to keep them alive for their vital shooting mid to late game?

 

2. Should the demon princes be deployed on the flanks of the rhinos/vindicators, as a major distraction for anti-transport fire?

 

3. Should the bikes be hidden behind my vehicles for a cover save at the start of the game? (Toughness 4(6) only does so much when you start taking krak).

 

4. Is it ever a good idea to elect to go 2nd and after he deploys his vehicles across the board, pick an extreme flank to deploy all the chaos forces and try to force-march up one side? It works with some armies, but only because their "battlefield-wide" shooting during thier 1st turn is minimum (such as space marines who might have half vehicle/half drop pod). This is the last question in my small list because I'm on the fence about it.. I don't think I want to weather another IG 1st turn without having smoke on my transports/vindicators.

 

It's not necessary that you comment or even answer each of the questions I have presented here because I am mostly "thinking out loud" to myself, but any advice as far as deployment in a competitive situation would be appreciated. Note that I do not have any units that can outflank or deepstrike (besides the princes, but meh).

 

Thanks! <3

[spartan249]

The classic IG parking lot... Isn't it just a pain in the rear?

 

My initial thought is that you use the 3 vindicators, Flamer Plague marines, and 2 Daemon princes as your attacking forces. Have the 3 vindicators up front (V), the Rhino in the middle [R] and the Princes as far away from the multi-lasers/whatevers as possible (P). Something like this:

___V

_V R V

P P

 

or wherever the Princes will be least exposed to enemy fire. I'd ram that straight into the most uncomfortable area for the parking lot to maneuver in so that the resulting focus fire isn't as concentrated as it would otherwise be, then use whatever is left to start engaging the enemy forces.

 

As for the bikes, I would keep them completely out of Line of Sight of as much as possible, and try to leverage them later on in the game, when some of the IG Chimeras are hopefully dead and you are under less risk of being focus fired on. Prey on any isolated bits that might try to engage the two rear squads holding your objective(s) and all that. The bikers are most probably going to be best used as your last turn objective contesters (claiming that 3+ cover save, whoot) and might very well win you the game by doing that. Preserving them long enough so that you have the chance to do that would be what I would do in your shoes.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Thanks a lot, spartan249. You've given me stuff to think about!

[Brother Nihm]

1. Should the rhinos be deployed behind the vindicators in Pitched Battle with multiple battlefield objectives? Is it worth giving my vital troops' transport a cover save and risking limited mobility if the vindicators are wrecked early because they are in front?

No imho. Remember that wrecked Rhinos can give cover saves to disembarked troops.

 

2. Should the vindicators be deployed behind the rhinos in order to keep them alive for their vital shooting mid to late game?

Yes but not too far back, you'll want them in range before they are silenced.

 

2. Should the demon princes be deployed on the flanks of the rhinos/vindicators, as a major distraction for anti-transport fire?

That depends but most likely.

 

3. Should the bikes be hidden behind my vehicles for a cover save at the start of the game? (Toughness 4(6) only does so much when you start taking krak).

Depending on list, terrain, opponent, I would keep them in reserve and boost asap.

 

4. Is it ever a good idea to elect to go 2nd and after he deploys his vehicles across the board, pick an extreme flank to deploy all the chaos forces and try to force-march up one side? It works with some armies, but only because their "battlefield-wide" shooting during thier 1st turn is minimum (such as space marines who might have half vehicle/half drop pod). This is the last question in my small list because I'm on the fence about it.. I don't think I want to weather another IG 1st turn without having smoke on my transports/vindicators.

If you go second and reserve everything, he wastes an entire turn of shooting. However, he can also use that round to maneouver into position for objectives. This one is situational but it can be a very good idea to go second.

 

I agree with spartan249 but you should try having only one prince in the main attack force, with the other one flanking. It creates more threat/pressure.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Excellent input Nihm thank you

 

I'll remember the last point, for sure.

[Purge]

If I'm reading you list correctly, you have 3 rhinos, 3 vindicators and 2 princes making 8 major targets. One thing I have noticed is that allowing IG to fire on you over and over again is devistating. Based on this I'm always scared to just drive out in the open and assult them, but I'm beginning to think that is the exact tactic that will work. Line up the vindicators and princes giving 5 major targests followed by all 3 rhinos. Drive as fast as possible regardless if you get to fire or not. At the end of the first move pop smoke to get a cover and try to place the princes almost behind the vindicators to gain a cover from the smoke and vehicles but still visible to make them a target. Forcing the IG to spread out the fire. Don't let them decide troop by troop what to shoot. Try to make them decide what will be shooting what prior to rolling. Sure you may have a prince taken out and you may still have the vindicators taken out, but if you can get those troops over to the tanks and wipe them out, nothing else will matter. The PM's can walk around the rest of the board wiping out entire squads in one turn. The bikes are last ditch objective grabbers or denyers. After the troops, princes or vindicators take out the armor you should be free to have the bikes take out some transports.

The only thing that has given me a problem with IG are the Lemun russ tanks. outside of them I've just walked the PM's around ignoring most of the fire taking out troops. At times I've lost just because I get preoccupied with killing troops and forget what turn it is and don't make it back to objectives I've left behind.

last note. Don't be upset if the vindicators lose the big gun. They can still ram and casue the big guns to not fire for a turn. Silencing the guns is the only objective. Once that is done look around for objectives. any troops that try to contest you, wipe them. The flamers are amazing for this. Good luck and please report on what you did. Please try some test games if you can to see how things work.

[Hyaenidae]

Obliterators (if you have any on hand) aren't anything to sneeze at either. Shot for shot, a squad of three will brutalize armour of most types, and being infantry, can take advantage of cover, and vantage points that vehicles could never use (narrow tops of buildings, etc). Plus, each of them having a +2/+5 save, and two wounds each, makes them extra survivable. Use them to focus on the most leathal threats (Russ Demolishers, Executioners, and those annoying damn Valkyries's lol), then targets of opportunity after that.

 

Failing that, I've been able to pull wins (albeit close ones) using infiltrating Chosen with meltas. That's a bit more risky of a tactic, and they're gonna most likely die screaming before the game's up, but they can usually put down your biggest threats prior to their martyring.

 

Hope this helps.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I've got 9 Obliterators painted up for my Thousand Sons but I have played with them since September 2007. I needed something new, and I realize that I am hurting myself by running the Vindicators, but I have painted the Vindis up just for my Death Guard. :]

 

I have the bitz for the Chosen, I might need to make some aligned with this army. Thanks, 1000heathens! Check your pms btw.

[Hyaenidae]

Totally understand. I'd run freshly painted dread's pre-FAQ, just because I'd put so much love into 'em. I'm also a huge fan of Vindicators. Still, at least debate replacing one of the Vindi's with a squad of two or three Oblit's. That demolisher cannon is pretty awesome against foot bound troops and light tanks, but you're gonna always struggle when popping armor with 'em, short of a direct hit. Use the Vindi's to sweep up the light-to-medium stuff, the oblit's to corner and crush threats to the Vindi's. Just my two cents.

 

P.S. PM's checked and responded.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Solid copy, I read you lickin' chicken.

[nurglephill]

The only thing I can add really is the trouble with this IG list is there are usually two tanks filled with plasma/melta vets, that when your infantry get to their tank line take out a squad of Plague marines a turn :angry:. or they use mass troops infront of the tanks that slow you right down until they can counter attack with vets in tanks :(. I have yet to find a solution to this.

 

I LOVE me some nurgle bikes, but they take some savy to make work, against troops and armed with flamers they kick ass. Against anything like a tank they do NOT and will take casualties then run for the hills sadly and a well placed found from IG artillery can do that so keep them out of the way!

 

Chosen can flank with FIVE melta guns which could cause serious trouble for them.....Oblits can DS into place etc.

 

 

Either way sir...GOOD LUCK!

[Hatefires]

I have since converted my Chaos Vindi into one for my Blood Angels, I would really replace the Vindies as they usually only get one good shot and they are toast.

For 120 points you can deep strike a 5 man raptor squad with 2 melta guns, but that is risky and throwaway.

 

I run with Defilers and Oblits, One of my defilers is a Nurgle plague hulk. I wonder how cool oblits converted from plague ogryn would look?

If you do stick with your list run as fast as you can towards them, pop smoke and keep the vindis in the front, but seriously man I don’t see how you are going to survive without lascannons and fast melta.

 

Btw a defiler for 150 points can keep a lot of heat off the rest of your army by attracting fire power, has a battle cannon, and with the extra close combat weapon has 5 attacks @ str 10 with fleet! Will eat vehicles in CC.

[spartan249]

Did you ever come up against an IG parking lot in that tourney of yours? I'm just curious to see what you did and how it worked out.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

They spartan, thanks for the follow-up.

 

I did not, in fact, see any IG in my four games.

 

I was too afraid to take my Thousand Sons and with the way my games went, I would have rolled all four opponents with Ap3 goodness. There was only one psychic hood at the whole tournament and I didn't even play near him.

 

-.-

 

I am confident this DG list would have done "ok" against the guard list that I fear, because of the sheer amount of terrain on each table. WOW!