shooting a Skimmer that went flat out....

[MylesTheTroll]

If wrecked/exploded do all passengers die too? If so what pages say this? Can't seem to find it which leads me to believe that the passengers disembark fine

[Grey Mage]

They do disembark fine.

 

The only time they die is if the transport moved out and becomes destroyed during that players own movement phase- for example, by ramming another vehicle for example.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

pg67 in my rulebook, I'll doublecheck

 

edit: Can't find it, but I know Grey Mage is right.

[Seahawk]

BRB FAQ:

 

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement

phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to

any embarked models, as passengers may not

disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in

that Movement phase? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties

 

But you don't use that, since that only happens when the vehicle crashes in a player turn that it moved the distance.

 

Otherwise, you just follow the rules given on page 67. A unit could be completely destroyed by the vehicle exploding, but it's highly unlikely.

[Leonaides]

point of order- if it is destroyed in the turn in which it moved flat out also includes the shooting phase, so scattering blast markers could also do it for example.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

But it says Movement Phase twice and not turn, there was a huge discussion on this @ dakka.

 

Don't look it up, my brain hurt after it was over (and its still going on due to necromancy)

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

At any rate, both the FAQ and the rulebook states clearly that when it says "turn" it means player turn, not game turn. If they mean game turn, they will write just that. And if a player is desperate enough to throw blasts that close to his own troops, he's boned anyway.

 

Can you tell that I've been down this street before?

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Can you tell that I've been down this street before?

 

Perhaps!

[Spacefrisian]

point of order- if it is destroyed in the turn in which it moved flat out also includes the shooting phase, so scattering blast markers could also do it for example.

 

 

Dont add things to it that isnt their, it says movement phase, most blasts are shot in shooting phase, thats 1 phase later.

[SeattleDV8]

At any rate, both the FAQ and the rulebook states clearly that when it says "turn" it means player turn, not game turn. If they mean game turn, they will write just that. And if a player is desperate enough to throw blasts that close to his own troops, he's boned anyway.

 

Can you tell that I've been down this street before?

 

Yes, we all have, but that was the old FAQ.

There is a new one. BRB FAQ

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement

phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to

any embarked models, as passengers may not

disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in

that Movement phase? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

 

The word turn has not been used.

The embarked unit is only removed 'in a Movement Phase'.

[Leonaides]

Yes, and this particular FAQ also only addresses the fact that if a vehicle is destroyed in the movement phase where is has moved flat out, then teh occupants are destroyed. This does not later the wording of the BRB which says that for that turn (and as established elsewhere by this they mean player turn), they cannot get out. There is also another possible point in a single players turn wehre they may cause the destruction of their own vehicle (the shooting phase) and the most common possiblity here would involve a scattering blast marker. If the scattering blast marker deos destory the vehicle (and we're still in the same player turn here), then the occupants still cannot get out and are thus still destroyed.

 

QED innit!

[Grey Mage]

Or to simplify- you cant move during your opponents move phase so you sure as heck cant move flat out during their movement phase.

[SeattleDV8]

Yes, and this particular FAQ also only addresses the fact that if a vehicle is destroyed in the movement phase where is has moved flat out, then teh occupants are destroyed. This does not later the wording of the BRB which says that for that turn (and as established elsewhere by this they mean player turn), they cannot get out. There is also another possible point in a single players turn wehre they may cause the destruction of their own vehicle (the shooting phase) and the most common possiblity here would involve a scattering blast marker. If the scattering blast marker deos destory the vehicle (and we're still in the same player turn here), then the occupants still cannot get out and are thus still destroyed.

 

QED innit!

Except the BRB never mentions how long the embarked unit may not disembark.

BRB pg.70

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase.

It never tells us movement phase (although implied), player turn, game turn or even the rest of the game.

The last FAQ made it the turn(player), this FAQ makes it the movement phase.

[Grey Mage]

"in that movement phase."

 

Seems quite specific to me.

[maturin]

"in that movement phase."

 

Seems quite specific to me.

 

We've been down this route before, but....

 

the that refers to moving flat out (as SeattleDV8 points out). It doesn't refer to embarking or disembarking. The sentence has a "Then-if" structure. If your reword it as a more familiar "If-then" structure the meaning becomes more clear: "If it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase, passengers may not embark or disembark". It doesn't make grammatical sense to apply the modifier "in that movement phase" to a different phrase than the one it's in.

 

Though I think it's pretty clear from the FAQ's that GW intends for this rule only to apply to blowing up due to terrain, not when the enemy blows up a vehicle. Personally I'm on the fence, and will play it however my opponent wants to.

[SeattleDV8]

The Faq has four conditions

1. the transport has been destroyed

2. In a movement phase

3. in which it has moved flat out

4.it has embarked passengers

 

If it meets all of the conditions, the embarked unit is removed as casualties.

If it doesn't then they may disembark as normal or is ignored.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

the that refers to moving flat out (as SeattleDV8 points out). It doesn't refer to embarking or disembarking. The sentence has a "Then-if" structure. If your reword it as a more familiar "If-then" structure the meaning becomes more clear: "If it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase, passengers may not embark or disembark". It doesn't make grammatical sense to apply the modifier "in that movement phase" to a different phrase than the one it's in.

 

How do you know it refers to that though, does it specifically state it? Don't point to grammatical sense as a reason for something being true, this is GW we're talking about.

[Grey Mage]

No...

 

"That" refers to the movement phase. How do we know this? Because it comes directly before the words "movement phase".

[maturin]

No...

 

"That" refers to the movement phase. How do we know this? Because it comes directly before the words "movement phase".

 

You are correct of course, I worded my reply badly (I'll blame exhaustion).

 

What I should have said is that "...in that movement phase" refers to the vehicle's movement, not the passengers embarking/disembarking.

 

@Captain Juarez - I use grammatical sense because it's all we have to go on. The rulebook is written in the English language, and I'm assuming grammatical sense applies to some degree. Otherwise if we toss grammatical sense out the window, what else goes as well? If we assume GW doesn't mean what they write, I'll assume then that "They are removed as casualties" actually means "They are completely unharmed and get a 2+ invulnerable save for the rest of the game". :huh:

[Captain Juan Juarez]

@Captain Juarez - I use grammatical sense because it's all we have to go on. The rulebook is written in the English language, and I'm assuming grammatical sense applies to some degree. Otherwise if we toss grammatical sense out the window, what else goes as well? If we assume GW doesn't mean what they write, I'll assume then that "They are removed as casualties" actually means "They are completely unharmed and get a 2+ invulnerable save for the rest of the game". :huh:

 

Which is fair enough, and I totally understand that reasoning, but infering too much is what I argue against - loose wording is the rule rather than exception for rules it seems!

[maturin]

Which is fair enough, and I totally understand that reasoning, but infering too much is what I argue against - loose wording is the rule rather than exception for rules it seems!

 

And I agree with you completely on that point. B)