Battle For The Abyss, Psychers and Space Wolves... Oh My!

[eyeslikethunder]

Thing is, the wolves are cautious with their powers. They don't rely on them to win a battle they are simply an additional tool. The sons wage war in a way that has psychic powers as a central support. This idea is brought up many times thoughout a Thousand Sons.

 

Both Othere Wyrdmake and Ahriman demonstrate the same capabilities in terms of the warp, indeed their sojourn into the warp rather proves this. Wyrdmake I think understands more than he let's on to Ahriman, and is looking for cast iron evidence from the horses mouth as to the extent of the sons knowledge and use of the Warp. The sons are perhaps seen as reckless with their powers, and could easily bring about that which the emperor doesn't want becoming known, i.e. general knowledge of the warp.

 

Trouble is, neither side is entirely right to my eyes.

 

Another two pence B)

 

Russ does psychic wolf howl heard across the battle field how is that cautious? It is quite obvious act and does not suggest they think they need to hide their use.

The contridiction is why they can use them.

 

Also in Outcast Dead they interrogate the navigator with Psychic powers but psykers are not neither navigators nor astropathes the two exceptions of the nikea rules

 

Maldacor is neither a navigator or a astropath but does not seem to need to give up his powers either.

[Gree]

Russ does psychic wolf howl heard across the battle field how is that cautious? It is quite obvious act and does not suggest they think they need to hide their use.

The contridiction is why they can use them.

 

It is heard across the battlefield by psykers. Custodes are not psykers. They would presumably just hear a normal howl.

 

Also in Outcast Dead they interrogate the navigator with Psychic powers but psykers are not neither navigators nor astropathes the two exceptions of the nikea rules

 

Maldacor is neither a navigator or a astropath but does not seem to need to give up his powers either.

 

The edict only applied to Astartes, not Navigators or anybody else. Malcador is not an Astartes.

[The Colossus]

It is heard across the battlefield by psykers. Custodes are not psykers. They would presumably just hear a normal howl.

 

I can't remember what sort of power were used by the wolves so forgive me, I can't find my copy of the book at the moment, but going on from this point, if they used ones that were not obvious to a non-psyker, would the Custodes be aware? Also, did the wolves use the psychic powers (discarding Russ's howl) in the presence of the Custodes at any point? Surely the Custodes would have been spread thinly throughout the Legion? Or, grouped around Russ? Both of which would mean that they cannot keep an eye on ALL the Rune Priests?

[Amadeus Baal]

I don't have the book with me, but wern't the Sisters of Silence part of the invading force? Perhaps their job was not just to nullify the Thousand Sons but to to also keep the Rune Priests in check. I completely forgot about that howl. Was it a psychic power or just something that spoke to the psyche of each and every wolf? Something that spoke to the DNA of every one of Russ's sons that caused them to fight harder perhaps? I doubt there would be enough Custodes to be everywhere at once. Though the Emperor does seem to send them to the legions he thinks he needs to keep an eye on.

[Gree]

It is heard across the battlefield by psykers. Custodes are not psykers. They would presumably just hear a normal howl.

 

I can't remember what sort of power were used by the wolves so forgive me, I can't find my copy of the book at the moment, but going on from this point, if they used ones that were not obvious to a non-psyker, would the Custodes be aware?

 

IIRC the psychic howl was described from Ahirman’s POV.

 

Also, did the wolves use the psychic powers (discarding Russ's howl) in the presence of the Custodes at any point? Surely the Custodes would have been spread thinly throughout the Legion? Or, grouped around Russ? Both of which would mean that they cannot keep an eye on ALL the Rune Priests?

In A Thousand Sons the Rune Priests utilizing their powers is not described in the presence of the Custodes. Wyrdmake uses his powers to fight Ahirman, but that was out of sight of everybody else.

[The Colossus]

So, the wolves may believe that they don't use psychic powers in the same vein as the Sons, ergo they may think its ok to use them, BUT, they are also cunning enough to realise (this is from their POV), that others may perceive the use of the powers as a breach of Nikea, and not be entirely happy with it, thus they attempt to use the powers on the down low.

 

However, we can't really say with impunity that the Rune Priests using said powers was NOT witnessed by others.

 

I mean, realistically, we have two very narrow views of Prospero. It would be interesting to see the Custodes and Sisters of Silence's viewpoints, although its obviously pretty unlikely admittedly.

[DarKnight]

Though clarification on what actually counts as psychic abilities still remains to be had, since the Rout were in favor of the disuse of what was thought of as sorcery they would not have been under scrutiny by the Custodians. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if a Rune Priest attempted to use his power in the vicinity of a Sister of Silence however...

[Lord_Caerolion]

Any ability that makes use of the Warp. Rune Priests use the Warp to fuel their abilities, as much as they may claim otherwise, therefore they use psychic powers.

[Blckbuster]

since it's the warp and not a neutral force of energy, the belief and attitude toward it and it's use actually Does matter, doesn't it?

[jeffersonian000]

The major issue with the currently depicted Council of Nikea over the older version is that in the HH novels all Astartes psykers are covered in the ban, while originally it was just those that practiced sorcery. There was a small attempt in the novel to point out that all Librarians were trained in the arts of sorcery per the Thousand Sons tradition, while the Rune Priests of Rus followed a different tradition which was not covered in the banning ... yet, per the banning in the novel, even Rune Priests should have been restricted, while in the original background fluff the only psykers banned were those trained in the ways of the Thousand Sons.

 

This is a huge disconnection from the older source material that has yet to be reconciled as the current story unfolds. We know that at some point, former Librarian Loyalist Marines will step forward in the defense of the Imperial Palace on Terra to counter the Traitor Marine Sorcerers despite the Nikea edict, and that at some point after that the institution of the Librarius will be reinstated either during or before the restructuring of Legions into Chapters. However, until such time as that event is depicted in the current HH series, the Sons of Rus are in violation of the Nikea edict per the wording of the edict as noted in the novel. Now, Rus may have been given a specific Aegis by The Emperor in their role as Legion Exterminators, which is why they felt no need to heed the Nikea edict. If so, that information has yet to be depicted in the series, yet would resolve the problem as it stands.

 

We shall see.

 

SJ

[MonSTeR]

The Space Wolves have Rune Priests because the concept and models for them predate the writings of the Horus Heresy storyline. There you go, question answered, mystery solved. :tu:

 

The Black Templars have a name that derives from religion because they were created by GW before the Horus Heresy timeline had been fully fleshed out, and the whole "Emperor hated religion" idea came about.

 

We have a winner.

 

GW is filling in a back story and changing the timeline as they see fit, that's fine. All the details and background of 40K changes over time and is only rationalized where necessary.

[Lord_Caerolion]

since it's the warp and not a neutral force of energy, the belief and attitude toward it and it's use actually Does matter, doesn't it?

 

No, not really. A psyker can believe all he wants that the Warp is perfectly safe and won't harm him, but that doesn't change the fact that there are countless daemons waiting to consume his soul. It's true that belief has an effect on the Warp, but only on a racial scale. Any protection granted by their beliefs are removed by everyone else knowing that the Warp is an incredibly dangerous place, and that it isn't safe.

 

To put it another way, "it doesn't matter whether you believe in the Devil or not, because he sure believes in you".