BogdanTheBlessed Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hello folks, I am a 30 year old (almost) new wargamer. I've been lured into Warhammer 40k after playing Warmachine (which I still do) and I loved the lore and diversity of Chaos. After reading "First Heretic", Chaos Codex and my love for religious fanatics made me look at Word Bearers as my army of choice. Model wise I have a Squad of regular Space Marines I intend to spruce up as Chaos Marines, a metal Dark Angel Captain (He will be turned into a Fallen Angel) and a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor I bought recently. Of the entirety of the Chaos Codex I loved Chaos Raptors,Chosen,Lesser Demons all of our diverse troops choices and vehicles. I'd like to make my force something along the lines of a Crusading force, revolving around tanks, raptors with regular troops and dreadnoughts as support (Close Combat Dreads which we seem to have access to, the ones with dual arms). I am also a big fan of Sorcerers. I am also partial to Khorne cult troops (Zerkers). Any input on my ideas are is welcome. I'm not sure how effective Raptors are but I love them. In my book taking them as Slaanesh or Khorne Raptors made sense. Thanks in advance and remember, "Faith in your emotions and passion is the path to power and it is paved with the skulls of your enemies!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Well, where to begin. Alright, let's go with straight off the bat, you're probably better off using a different codex. I personally run standard Codex: Space Marines - AKA Vanilla marines - and I enjoy it and am not hampered by the restrictions placed by Codex: Chaos Marines. Don't ask why the Chaos Codex is restrictive, you can searchy it with the tool at the bottom of the page, and you'll understand it's a huge can of worms. It's important to note you can use whatever Codex you want - but you usually want your miniatures to be close to what they're representing, to avoid confusion. IE - all the marines which have jump packs for wargear, should actually be modelled with jump packs :) Two options you have, though. You can choose to wait out until the new Chaos Codex comes out, which according to the rumour mill, is sometime this year. However, we don't know this for sure. If you don't want to do that, then consider these - You're interested in Raptors which is understandable, I find them pretty amazing myself :D You might want to check out the Blood Angel codex then, it's fairly decent, most of the units are cost effective (especially assault squads raptors) and what with the Red Thirst and Black Rage special rules, allows the darker side of Chaos to be represented as well. Codex: Space Wolves is very customisable, just like Chaos, and allows for a ton of variety, while still being very competitive on the table. Be warned, though, compared to other 'marine' codices their skyclaws are wannabe assault marines, as they have less Strength and what not as according to fluff (background) they aren't full astartes yet. And finally, Vanilla marines codex. It's getting a little dated, but it's still home to many cost effective units and is basicly the template from which other 'marine' codices deviate to form their own strengths and weaknesses. This is what I use personally and I'm rarely let down. Hope this helps, let me know if anything didn't make sense ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 By the sound of it, I think you should stay away from a pure Word Bearer force. They really don't approve of monotheism, so background-wise, icons/marks of the Gods is straight out. Only Undivided for these chaps. However, count-as is your friend, and I give my Lord the Mark of Tzeentch, just for the 4+ save, to represent his Accursed Crosius and blessing of the Gods. I also include a unit of Khorne Berzerkers (I'm not using Berzerker models however. I use Forge World mk.V armours with chaos backpacks and chainaxes, can be seen here). These are my 'Assault Veterans', kinda like the Vanguards the Loyalists have. The rules in the codex are really restrictive if you want to use a specific Legion, be they dedicated to a single God, all of them or none at all. It really is constructed as a Black Legion/Renegades/Mish-mashed warband book, and doesn't allow for any other sort of chaos force, unless you use count-as, so you can get at least something out of the codex. But anyway, welcome to all things unholy, and hopefully you will have a pleasant stay! A new codex seems to be out sometime this year, which will most likely remedy the situation chaos is in right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 come on, surely we can do better than that...someone asks how to play chaos and we tell him to play another codex ! Well, it is true our codex is very mediocre.... The best of our codex is cult troops-plague marines and berzerkers (all in rhinos) and obliterators for heavy support. Chas space marines themselves are OK, give them either double melta or double plasma in a 10 man squad with rhino and they are average. And for HQ, well, they are all pretty average. Go for whatever you like....a lord with a daemon weapon or double lclaws can munch stuff pretty well, but will die easily to powerfists, or, well, anything that chooses to hit him. A sorceror has some interesting powers, thought if your opponent has a psychic hood(as all marines do) they can stop them. And a daemon prince used to be a killing cc machine until very recently, now just run him with wings and Mark of Khorne for some cc damage and an extra target for the enemy to shoot at. Good luck ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Word Bearers were one of my first favorites for the same reasons. Astartes are a force to be reckoned with but one with a fanatical devotion is even more worrying. I personally echo khurdur's statement and say stick with the Chaos codex as well as following the troop suggestions. I myself wished I had just built a Berzerker heavy force lead by Khârn with support from other units. The whole idea would follow a tactic I enjoy very much: CHARGE & SLAUGHTER! *I am a hypocrite though as I have a chaos Force using SW dex but they'll be replaced soon. You also say you are partial to Khorne-worshipping troops so I would like to quote something similar a friend stated about his Khorne Terminator Army: "it's not about how many victories they will have but how many skulls they will reap" Just something to keep in mind when playing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 come on, surely we can do better than that...someone asks how to play chaos and we tell him to play another codex ! Agreed. Chaos will have its day (and soon probably), and even though we're not "top tier" right now we're still fun to play. More player interest in Chaos Marines specific books and models can only be a good thing for the established Chaos Marines players. The tricky question is whether it would be worth it to start investing in Chaos Marines right now in light of the strong probability we'll have a new codex (and therefore possibly a few new models) within the next year. I firmly believe that for a person who starts collecting Chaos Marines this year that there are many basic choices available that will carry over to any next edition without any heartache. If you shoot for a 1500 point collection and focus on painting your basic troops and transports I don't think you can really go wrong. That way if fancy new units come out they can be added to the generic core. Can we really see them making radical changes to the basic squad? And if they do it would likely be a special weapons or heavy weapons swap for one or two guys in a ten man squad, maybe a reconfiguring of a squad leader. And are Daemon Princes ever going to go out of style? It's the same problem if you send new players to other codices. They configure a Space Wolves force and then a cool Legions book comes out, and with a greater possibility of having to reconfigure models or buy new ones. So I'd say to go with the regular Chaos Marines codex (borrow one, buy one second hand from the internet, or whatever) and buy generic troops choices. Proxy any units beyond the basic while you're figuring out your style and what works, and by the time you've got that in hand the rumors of newer things should be more firm and you'll have more of an idea what you want anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretic??ME?? Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Have you thought about a Blood Angel list?? and I'm not talking about power gaming either. You can essentially get 5 dark apostles into the list with this dex. 2 Reclusiarchs and 3 chaplains. Heck even one more if you use death company (possessed). DC dreads as possessed dreads Hand flamers could be flaming torches as well. Mephiston and the Sanguinator are basically daemon princes. Raptors count as troops. Scouts as beastmen/mutant rabble. Just no straight daemons which is a shame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You could even have Astoreth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 If it is for learning I would start with something like this 1 units of csm [load out does not matter , but it is better to run to special weapons like 2 melta or 2 plasma and an asp champion with a powerfist] 1 unit of zerkers. 8 with a powerfist champion the power armored lord aka fallen angle [maybe use him as a sorcerer ?] . he will run around with the zerkers 1 ccw dread. terminator lord with 4 terminators. should be ok to learn how to play . If you are going for something that works instead of using models that you like [because of fluff or models] , the army will look a bit different , but there is milion topics about that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Welcome to the forum and most welcome to the greatest legion of them all! I think you could start with something like this: 1 Chaos Lord with Daemon Weapon. 1 Chaos Dreadnought with Plasma Cannon. 9 Berzerkers, Aspiring Champion with Powerfist, Icon of Chaos Glory. 10 Chaos Space Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon, Icon of Chaos Glory. 2 Rhinos. 5 Raptors, 2 Meltaguns. 1 Vindicator. Then you have about a thousand points with all different kinds of fun. You should not be too hurt by any codex update either, but who knows? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogdanTheBlessed Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thank you all for the multitude of replies. I still have a few modelling questions and some not connected to modelling 1) Would it be acceptable to buy a Blood Angels Furioso and use it after some modelling work as a Chaos Dread with Dual Close Combat Weapons? 2) The regular Marines I have are from Assault from Black Reach, so Chaosifying them might be hard or so i gather. Could I keep them as newly turned renegade marines without spiking them much? After all a persuasive preaching Word Bearer could have his words fall on the ears of such Marines or even use them as Fallen Dark Angels allied with the Word Bearers. 3) I plan to buy a Battleforce and a second Rhino (I get more CSM, Zerkers as suggested) yet can the Possessed Chaos Marines be mixed with the additional 5 man squad we get in the battleforce to make it go to 10 men and simply kit them with guns and some of their own mutated arms to represent old mutated Veterans? Or maybe turn them in a second squad of Chosen? 4) Going back to question #1 are two Dreadnoughts feasible to be run together as a Dynamic smashing duo? 5) Back to the Dreadnoughts (yes I love them even if ours are a bit insane) planning to mix a dual Plasma Squad of Chaos Marines along with a Plasma Cannon Dreadnought and Combi-Plasma on the Rhino the Marines are in to hunt other Marine types. Do you think it feasible? Raptors will have Melta-Guns and for such a mix i think some longer range Plasma might work too. Okay enough for now! I may ask more as ideas will come in! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 1) Would it be acceptable to buy a Blood Angels Furioso and use it after some modelling work as a Chaos Dread with Dual Close Combat Weapons? yes 2) The regular Marines I have are from Assault from Black Reach, so Chaosifying them might be hard or so i gather. Could I keep them as newly turned renegade marines without spiking them much? After all a persuasive preaching Word Bearer could have his words fall on the ears of such Marines or even use them as Fallen Dark Angels allied with the Word Bearers. well they do have bad weapon load ours which would never be run in actual armies , but as long as they dont look too imperial anything goes . there are no actual word bearer models anymore . 3) I plan to buy a Battleforce and a second Rhino (I get more CSM, Zerkers as suggested) yet can the Possessed Chaos Marines be mixed with the additional 5 man squad we get in the battleforce to make it go to 10 men and simply kit them with guns and some of their own mutated arms to represent old mutated Veterans? Or maybe turn them in a second squad of Chosen? that is probably what most people do because those possessed we have are bad units , but the models are ok to give parts for champions to squads or making csm more chaos . dont try to run hth chosen . 4) Going back to question #1 are two Dreadnoughts feasible to be run together as a Dynamic smashing duo? no. 5) Back to the Dreadnoughts (yes I love them even if ours are a bit insane) planning to mix a dual Plasma Squad of Chaos Marines along with a Plasma Cannon Dreadnought and Combi-Plasma on the Rhino the Marines are in to hunt other Marine types. Do you think it feasible? nope again . because A if you run them at the front of your army your slowing the rest of it [and that is bad considering we cant do gunline] B if he stands behind your army your units are closer , if you somehow manage to get your opponent units in LoS while keeping your units out of it then you must be realy lucky with the terrain . C even if the dreads dont go crazy neither their shoting nor their assault abilities are good. in hth they have too few attacks and only av12 , if you arm your dreads with plasmas they are av12 plasma transports which are easy to stun and then they dont do a thing[unless they rage of course]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2979745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogdanTheBlessed Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 After more consideration I will keep to a Word Bearer gene-seed force, but I've read about the Sanctified and I think my forces will be a Sanctified Army even if they are Mono-Theistic mostly (Khorne). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2982989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMark Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 3) I plan to buy a Battleforce and a second Rhino ( Rumour has it that GW will soon be selling a squad + transport box, so you'll essentially get a free transport. This would be more cost effective, so keep an eye on the GE site , or ask at your local gaming store about it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2984517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogdanTheBlessed Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Good to know! ;) Thanks for the heads up Mark! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2984521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hello and welcome. Several things that I wish to say. I come at a Chaos army from a completely different angle form most people, so here's my views: My army consists of 30 CSMs in 3 squads one squad with IoCG, plasma gun, heavy bolter and power sword, one with IoCG, powersword and melta and one with IoK, power fist and plasma pistol, 5 terminators, 5 bikers with 2 meltas, a defiler, a vindicator, a rhino, a Land Raider, a Terminator Lord and a Terminator Sorceror with gift of chaos. I play a very assault based army, so I have two units of the CSM units geared up for combat and one to shoot and hold objectives at the back of the board. One of the assault units has the Icon of Khorne. I see no problem with using marks on the troops, I see it as them asking for the favour of one of the gods for the battle. The bikes are great for tank busting, but could casily be swapped out for Raptors/Chosen. The same goes for the Terminators and the defiler could easily be a dreadnought. I put the IoK assault squad in the Land Raider and the undivided assault squad in the rhino. The teminators will deep strike and the vindicator will blow stuff up. The Lash Daemon Prince or warptime sorceror/daemon prince are often used, but I don't use them. I hope this is useful to you! EDIT: Also, this leaves points over at 2k to fill with lesser daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2984538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMark Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Looks like these limited sets will only be available direct to retailers, so get into yours and order. They're out 25th Feb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246247-hello-i-am-new-and-religious/#findComment-2984593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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