DA book coming up on first half of 2012

[Gillyfish]

In all seriousness, if we do get a new dex, I think we're looking at one of two ways:

- small update. tacticals brought in line with C:SM, option for intractable or stubborn. Librarians made more useful. Maybe 1 new unit (probably jetbike squad to go with Sammy), mortis dreads

- complete overhaul. Focus on hunting the fallen with special rules to match (preferred enemy against chaos yada yada), focus on our large stocks of ancient technology compared to other marine chapters (cheaper plasma options for tacticals, options for master crafted stuff everywhere, new weapons, access to relic blades, dreadnoughts carrying plasma cannons or conversion beamers, a predator variant, a land raider variant etc), new "centrepiece units" for the deathwing (robed terminators. swords and shields options. hopefully relic blades), the ravenwing (jetbike comand type unit), a gunboat that's a storm raven but isn't, couple more special characters. Deathwing to be set up like grey knight terminators i.e. you buy the squad with a basic pw/sb, then you pay for the upgrades. expect a drop in price on that too.

 

I can't see a middle ground there and the design philosophy in the studio seems to be more options, more units, more flexibility in building the army. as opposed to the design philosophy of 4th - strip is down, streamline the books.

 

Again, I'd probably look to the BA Codex as an indicator (perhaps wrongly! :P). Although they got a few new units and are still supposed to be a primarily Codex Chapter (arguably more so than the Dark Angels) their main difference is arguably organisational rather than special units. The ability to take jump infantry as troops is distinctive, as is the option of taking dreadnoughts just about everywhere. Neither of those are new units, but the FOC and the special rules the BA have make them play very differently. The unique BA units help to reinforce that. I would expect our Codex to do something similar, playing up the psychological and ranged aspects of the DA even further than before, maybe introducing some new units that epitomise this (well the Deathwing already do the former, but maybe not the ranged aspect). Additional rules for basic units or abilities unlocked by HQs would probably accomplish an element of that.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the changes to the FOC may be the most far-reaching and simple, but which might give us a very distinct flavour.

[riddles]

good logical conclusion.

 

I've often bemoaned the fact that, in bigger games, when i've filled my troops choices with deathwing, if I want to stay to a pure deathwing force, dreadnoughts are too cheap to fill all the slots and land raiders too expensive.

 

if i could get 45 terminators and 3 dreads on the board i'd be a happy bunny.

[plasmaspam]

i am one of the few who kinda likes the DA codex currently... however i look forward to the next one. My big concern is the content of the new 'dex.. i dont want stupid units/ridiculous fluff.

 

i agree. granted i'm not a competition player, but i've never felt that disadvantaged by the codex. like it or not, Greenwing DA are pretty much "Codex", it's the Deathwing and Ravenwing that distinguish us. if it isn't too off-topic to wish-list, i'd suggest the following.

 

things i would like:

• points harmonisation with C:SM
  
• scouts as troops
  
• Ravenwing get Veteran statline
  
• Deathwing can take 2 Heavy Weapons
  
• robed Termies
  
• Ravenwing Jetbike squadrons (elites choice)
  
• LR Ares (sorry - i love the idea!)
  
• Predator Executioner plasma tank
  
• basic marine gets Bolter/Bolt Pistol/Chainsword as standard
  
• generic/customisable "Grand Master" unit enabling Death/Raven armies but as successors, not just Belly/Sammy counts-as
  
• similar generic/customisable Interrogator Chaplain and Librarian units that unlock Death/Raven
  

 

things that would make me cry:

• anything as silly as ThunderLion cavalry
  
• anything as absurd and overpowered as Kaldor Draigo
  

[HsojVvad]

Well if past history tells us, when a new codex is about to be released, GW stops selling it on their website. From what I know, DA is not "pulled" off the GW website for sale, at least the DA codex. It's still being sold, so to me, this is a strong indication that we will not be getting a new codex anytime soon, espically not in 6 months.

 

Unless GW wants to go agasint history, I am sure it was done for SW/IG/Tyranids/BA(ok it was a PDF so could be wrong there, can't remember if the PDF was taken down or not)/DE/GK(Deamon Hunters)/Necrons.

 

So since DA codex is still for sale, no DA codex on the horizon. Now can't remember if the BT codex was pulled or not.

[Brother Kovash]

Everyone has already covered the wishlists that I've been dreaming about the past two years, so I won't bring any of those up. However, I'm of the opinion that the Dark Angels should not be included in the 6th edition starter box. We're not the "ultimate protectors of mankind" like the Ultras are, and we're not the zealous crusaders that the Black Templars are. We are a reclusive Legion by nature, and we should stay that way. I fear that exposing new players to the darker elements of the 40k universe would actually turn off people, not attract them.

 

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I feel that becoming a Dark Angels player should be something you stumble upon after being immersed to the 40k universe. The idea that some kid will pick up a box of DA Veterans and yell "COOL THESE GUYS HAVE ROBES I'M BUYING THEM!" totally diminishes what the Unforgiven stand for. But maybe this is what GW needs to further expand and dominate the hobby.

 

Wow, that sounded way more elitist reading it than it did in my mind, but so be it. I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way? ;)

[Millicant]

Everyone has already covered the wishlists that I've been dreaming about the past two years, so I won't bring any of those up. However, I'm of the opinion that the Dark Angels should not be included in the 6th edition starter box. We're not the "ultimate protectors of mankind" like the Ultras are, and we're not the zealous crusaders that the Black Templars are. We are a reclusive Legion by nature, and we should stay that way. I fear that exposing new players to the darker elements of the 40k universe would actually turn off people, not attract them.

 

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I feel that becoming a Dark Angels player should be something you stumble upon after being immersed to the 40k universe. The idea that some kid will pick up a box of DA Veterans and yell "COOL THESE GUYS HAVE ROBES I'M BUYING THEM!" totally diminishes what the Unforgiven stand for. But maybe this is what GW needs to further expand and dominate the hobby.

 

Wow, that sounded way more elitist reading it than it did in my mind, but so be it. I hope I'm not the only one who feels that way? ;)

 

Man oh man I'm right with you. I know it sounds elitist and harsh, I said the exact same thing. However, I totally agree with you and I fear that our dark and reclusive nature will be lost. It's not just the fluff of the Dark Angels, it sort of applies to the players as well.

 

We don't want to be in the limelight.

 

At least I don't want us to be - but maybe I'm just being selfish. And thank you to those who have been talking some sense into me - I'm trying hard to come around... ;)

[Interrogator Stobz]

We are only in the limelight if the rumours are true, even then only in the real world.

Having a shiney new dex in no way affects how dark and secretive we DA are in the 40k ooniverse, nor does it diminish our 'Grimdarkness' and self loathing one bit.

 

Remember: Better support = More players, More players = Better support, and that's what I want for our Legion.

New blood is always welcome to the ROCK.

 

2c worth of opinions :)

 

s

[Ronin_eX]

Well, the rumours seem to corroborate towards us being in the starter with Chaos (and signs seem to be pointing to the other force being Fallen since it will include traitor guard/cultists along with chosen and a dread instead of being straight up CSM). Rumours also seem to strongly point to Chaos being the first 6th Edition codex.

 

The only thing no other rumours have corroborated are that the DA are just prior to the release of 6th (they also haven't said it is false either).

 

Part of me is really hoping that the Necrons are the last release of 5th and that Dark Angels will be the second codex of 6th. If we get shafted with a release just before an edition change-up and end up being another test-case that requires constant FAQs and Errata throughout its life then I will not be too terribly pleased.

 

Being in the starter set is awesome but I hope we don't get the dubious honour of being the last codex of 5th. This is all assuming 6th will be any good as well, so another reason for me hoping this is that I can review 6th edition prior to the release of the DA codex to see if it is even worth waiting for. If the DA codex drops before hand then it will be harder to determine if it will be worth the buy-in before I see the rules it was meant to work for.

[Cactus]

Focus on hunting the fallen with special rules to match (preferred enemy against chaos yada yada),

I'm usually against translating the hunt for the Fallen into tabletop rules but that would be a perfect rule for the Deathwing, especially as fearless alone, although cool, isn't particularly better than being a normal marine.

 

A Ravenwing jetbike command squad/elite would be in character and unique. What's not to like? :( I very much doubt we'll see any actual cavalry. People point to the Space Wolves for precedent but no matter how ridiculous you think the idea is (and I do) it's long-established that the sixth legion have some relationship with the beasts of Fenris (cf. Freki and Greki). The Dark Angels are completely the opposite, having eradicated all the beasts of their native world and then the world itself for good measure.

[Gillyfish]

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I feel that becoming a Dark Angels player should be something you stumble upon after being immersed to the 40k universe. The idea that some kid will pick up a box of DA Veterans and yell "COOL THESE GUYS HAVE ROBES I'M BUYING THEM!" totally diminishes what the Unforgiven stand for. But maybe this is what GW needs to further expand and dominate the hobby.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with that. There's always a certain degree of 'jumping on the bandwagon' when a new Codex is released. The more important question is how many people will stay for the duration? The Dark Angels have an extremely cool background and look really cool on the tabletop too. We can't say definitively how popular the army is, but it's often been one of the busiest parts of the Bolter and Chainsword, so it's got a devoted fanbase and would seem to be a pretty popular chapter, even when it has a Codex that many consider to be second rate. In the long term a lot of players stick with an army because they love the background, the models and/or the way they play. The Dark Angels are a bit of a marmite army in that not everyone likes to think that they were or could be the bad guys, others love that.

 

Changing the subject slightly, I think there is a perception that certain Chapters have natural enemies because of their background. That's actually probably more true for the DA than for some of the other Chapters, but it seems that many of them have a 'number one natural opponent' if you like. So those might be:

 

Blood Angels vs Orks (Battle for Armaggeddon, 2nd ed boxset)

Ultramarines vs. Tyranids (Battle for Macragge, 5th ed boxset)

Space Wolves vs. Thousand Sons (Battle for the Fang, no boxset yet)

Black Templars vs. Orks (Armaggedon again, but Dark Eldar were their opponents in 4th - this was before the BT background had been fleshed out though)

 

Of course, the Ultramarines were set against Orks in the Black Reach starter set, but the Ultramarines are often considered to be the 'typical' marine Chapter, so that doesn't entirely negate it. It isn't the strongest of theories, but I wonder of the decision was taken by GW to put Chaos in the box and then they searched for an opponent. If that's the case, who better than the DA to be their opponent? A couple of nice scenarios could be developed which would add the flavour of a hunt for the Fallen and give the set a very strong narrative which would draw new players deeper into the game and the background.

[riddles]

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I feel that becoming a Dark Angels player should be something you stumble upon after being immersed to the 40k universe. The idea that some kid will pick up a box of DA Veterans and yell "COOL THESE GUYS HAVE ROBES I'M BUYING THEM!" totally diminishes what the Unforgiven stand for. But maybe this is what GW needs to further expand and dominate the hobby.

 

If Chaos and DA came out at similar times (June DA, July 6th, August Chaos), I wouldn't expect much DA bandwagoning, if i'm honest. Chaos has a cult (heh) following. Most people I speak to have a secondary Chaos army, or love the fluff for one of the chaos legions. With Chaos getting the big push anyway as the big bad again, there'll be far more chaos bandwagoners than DA.

 

As for kids picking up robed marines and yelling such things, surely they would do that regardless of whether we had a new book or not?

[shabbadoo]

Cool models always attract new players. Nothing wrong with that.

[krewl]

I never understood the people who want their army tobe all for the chosen few... And the dislike for bandwaggonners..

 

Let me explain...

 

It is and always has been the way the game cycle works. Shiney new stuff gets released, many people jump on it, most just because the models are cool and/or something in the playstyle hit's their interest. When a new dex is released, many people jump on it, some stick for models, some for background, some for the rules fitting their playstyle. Some people drift out of the hobby due to life or less interest. Others just buy to much but never do anything with it. Some looking for the ultimate power army will hop on the next codex (Usually more money then brains, as this is the most balanced edtion yet, so you really are spending a billion euro's on minor benefits if at all... i.m.h.o.). Certainly people flock to a new codex looking for the next powerfull thing, but how many of those building lists actually buy, build, paint and play the models? By the time the new codex craze wares off, those few stiking with it will just be another set of DA players.

 

I've been in 40k since 2nd edition (When I bloody well could fire my entire Cyclone Missile Launcher if I wanted to !) and I can honestly say this momentum is good for the hobby. It keeps a wave of change going through the game which helps keep it fresh.

 

For example, having played Deathwing for quite a while I know the army well. But the new codexes which I wil meet on the field of battle keep me reading them (I'm a tourny player so I have to stay up to speed on them) and thinking on how my trusted Superarmoured elite will handle this and that army. In a way, even though my army stays basicaly the same the interest still stays and I don't sink into gaming on autopilot which will turn into boredom.

 

Same goes for people claiming this or that from a new codex will be unstoppable and unkillable and ruin 40k for ever and ever!

We heard that about coucil yetbikes, nob bikers, IG leafblowers, paladins, long fangs, rifledreads, vulkan lists and so on and so on.

People build new lists, their opponent lose some games, figure out how to kill them and life is back to normal.

Just for a bit of a reality check, I remember when THIS DA codex was released, and Ravenwing + termies in Deathwing assault was deemed broken. This was before any fancy pancy 3++ storm shields or 2 shot CML's mind you. Please tell me how our DA codex ruled every tournament ever since :D

 

So summing it all up:

- Constant change in small portions like codex releases is good. It keeps the game fresh but still comfortable known at the same time.

- Bandwagoners are not as horrible as they would seem, the vast mayority is gone before they have a finished amry anyway, hunting an illusive grail. :)

- New codexes will bring change, but won't be the end of the world. Usually your chosen playstyle will stuill be possible.

- On the other side of the same coin. New codexes will not ruin 40K forever cause of how OVERPOWERED (Really? Over 9000!) they might seem.

[Louis]

Well said Krewl!

 

At 13 years old I was lucky enough to have just started war gaming when a member of the group I had joined picked up Rouge Trader. I've drifted in and out of the hobby a few times since, tried just about every army there is, and moves loads of times and so joined a lot of gaming groups. The guys I went to school with don't play anymore, a few of the guys I went to University with still do, and I'm in a new location again so meeting gamers at a new club for the first time. All of those people started somewhere, all of them were new to 40K, and I'm thankful every one of them picked up some dice and asked what Ballistic Skill was.

 

It's the same with Dark Angels, if players hadn't kept getting drawn to them then we'd be in the same position as the other Chapters back in Rouge Trader - a single picture on the marine heraldry page. The more players that come to us the more GW will be pushed to expand the history of our Legion, and the more we can enjoy reading and playing our rich background.

[riddles]

final request for the ravenwing command squad - give us the veterans/command squad options dammit! I want to run a biker command squad that doesn't fold up in any kind of combat. currently, no-one uses the RW banner and only use the FNP to keep plasma guns churning over.

[The Shadow Guard]

Changing the subject slightly, I think there is a perception that certain Chapters have natural enemies because of their background. That's actually probably more true for the DA than for some of the other Chapters, but it seems that many of them have a 'number one natural opponent' if you like. So those might be:

 

Blood Angels vs Orks (Battle for Armaggeddon, 2nd ed boxset)

Ultramarines vs. Tyranids (Battle for Macragge, 5th ed boxset)

Space Wolves vs. Thousand Sons (Battle for the Fang, no boxset yet)

Black Templars vs. Orks (Armaggedon again, but Dark Eldar were their opponents in 4th - this was before the BT background had been fleshed out though)

 

Don't forget:

 

Crimson Fists vs Orks (Battle at Badlanding and Battle for Rynn World - Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Book and the RB01 Spacemarine Boxset) ;)

Dark ANgels vs Orks (Battle for Piscina IV, Storm of Vengeance Campaign Pack) B) :)

 

SG

[Arioch]

The idea that some kid will pick up a box of DA Veterans and yell "COOL THESE GUYS HAVE ROBES I'M BUYING THEM!" totally diminishes what the Unforgiven stand for. But maybe this is what GW needs to further expand and dominate the hobby.

 

Thats what I did ;) whats wrong with that? Ok I was not a kid, but I definetly behaved like one when I bought them. But I had read a lot about them before I did it, it was certainly not just a matter of cool models.

 

Maybe the Dark Angels look like a small band of brothers from the outside, because they have had a bad codex for some time, but in fact they are one of the most popular chapters out there, so I dont see the problem with new players joining up. We are a big leg... a large chapter after all.

 

But well, this new edition starter- set is still only a rumor. I dont believe it before I have seen it, I still cant believe they would put the DA chapter in the spotlight above other blue marines...

That dark angel on the spine of White Dwarf is interesting though- interesting times indeed!

[Millicant]

Krewl, well said.

 

I appreciate your input, especially as somebody with a lot more experience and history in 40k than I have. That's just what I needed to hear to keep me sane about this process and less snobby/elitist about a new codex and the changes it brings.

 

Deep breaths.... ;)

[lhavoc]

Greetings from one of the Bandwaggoners!

 

When I first came into a GW store was also when Codex: Dark Angels was released. Then, it WAS the hot new Codex that was going to blow everyone away and had the cool Battalion Set (Not the RW one ;) ). DA became my first and favorite army ever since. I don't think we should really worry about having a bunch of people start playing DA because it's the new Codex and then walking away in a few months. In that time before, we got a LOT of cool, robed models. Deathwing specific bitz, a Ravenwing boxed set, a veterans set and a cool MotRW on jetbike. Who knows what we are going to get (Jetbikes, YaY!) when we are the hip, new, Codex again?

 

May your Plasma never get hot!

[captain sox]

Just a quick thought I'd like you opinions on:

 

Do you think if a new Codex came out this year, would the DW change? Would you still be allowed mixed units, or would they 'standardize' it for fairness (ie only terminator squads or only terminator assault squads?) Would we get to keep DW unique? I've been building and painting a DA army for a tournament coiming up later this year, and I'd be disappointed if the DW loadout changed. Shoul've used magents on my Terminators!

 

thanks all,

[riddles]

It's a defining feature of the DW, so I doubt it's going to change.

 

I imagine if it does change, terminators will start with a basic loadout (probably pw/sb) and you pay points for upgrading to PF, TH, SS etc.

[martink]

6th starter does indeed feature DA and the forces of chaos... : http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/02/40k...rter-boxed.html

[krewl]

I'd expect DW to stay playable as an all termie for a start, thats a given.

And after the hubub they made in the fact that DW have mix and match options I'd also find it very unlikely they'd remove that aswell.

 

What I do expect is a beefed up Belial, sadly his low costs made him an excelent buy (Something people seem to mis when they plant Belial versus Dante/Logan/etc.. you get 2 Belials for one of them ;)) and he left room for the rest of the army. I expect him to be more powerfull, and a lot more pricy to match.

 

I also expect that our TH&SS options will no longer be free but cost a certain points number. After all, when we got the shields they where 4++ in close combat only, they got a massive boost afterthat. (Although a baisc TH&SS guy costs 40 pts in other dexes aswell, so who knows..) After that Deathwing guesses are just that, guesses and wishlisting.

 

Also on the topic of deathwing, look on the forum around here, plenty of discussion on this specific topic;

Deathwing discussion on new codex

 

Final Note, I am glad I did magnetise my arms, buckets of work, but worth the flexibility :D

 

@Riddles, although the current killpoints mission makes RW a not so hot choice, try a Chaplain on bike, ful RW squad, 2 x plasma, banner, apoth and fist.

Good for cleaning anything not made for die hard CC. Everything else in RW is still a shooting army, but this can help remove targettd weak units like devvis, fangs, tacticals, sternguard and everything MSU. But I mainly use them for liberating units locked in cc as RW does not want to much cc anywhere.

[Interrogator Stobz]

...

Final Note, I am glad I did magnetise my arms, buckets of work, but worth the flexibility ;)

...

 

Me too---so very glad :angry: If we ever do get robed 'nators I'll only have to paint the bodies, excellent!!

 

s

[march10k]

Our own jetbike seer council? Like, for realz, gangsta?

 

 

....blech!

 

I would be pretty happy with solid tactical squads and anything that makes assault squads worthwhile.