Very WIP

[Son of Sanguin]

Okay, So I started work today on my new Chinese themed SM army.

 

Basics:

Don't follow any standard organisational plan.

12 Companies :-

Ox Company (Terminators)

Dog Company (Raven wing style)

Horse, Dragon, Rooster and Goat companies (Tactical squads)

Tiger and Monkey companies (Assault Squads)

Snake and Pig Companies (Devastator Squads)

Rat Company (Scout veterans, snipers, bolters, heavy weapons, bp+ccw)

Rabbit company (Initiate scouts, normal run on the mill shot gun or bp+ccw)

 

The whole chapter is spread over a whole solar system, each living in it's own temple and studying it's own doctrine and style.

 

a council of 16 leads the whole Chapter:-

Captain of each of the great companies

Head Chaplin

Head Librarian

Head Tech Marine

Chapter Master

 

This is the colour scheme so far, got to test it on a model yet

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n513/themr6ix/SonsofTiefu.jpg

 

Colours are based on the forbidden city, Red with yellow trim and the company colours and company names are based on the Chinese zodiac and their colours.

 

Chapter symbol is going to be a variation of the chinese flag. A large yellow star crowned by two small stars on either side.

 

Any ideas will be good, cheers

[czertowicz]

Interesting idea, I can't think of a chinese inspired chapter off the top of my head (although I'm sure long standing B&C members can set me straight on that!) I like the look of it so far. I've been trying to work out the difference between the Dog light veterans and Goat company though.

 

Have you had any thoughts on their background? I assume you're going for oriental sounding naming of officers etc?

[Son of Sanguin]

Using the smp i wasn't able to make any changes between dog and goat. I tried using the older version but the colours were way off. I have just spoted that I can make their left knee red and that will make a diffrence and tie them into the ox company.

 

I don't have anything solid in the way of background yet and I will be using chinese names. I'm going to lay out the factual stuff first the do the 'legends'of the chapters creation and it's backing history. I know that I wan't them to hvae thought they were from white scars stock and have recently discovered that their gene seed doesn't match.

 

As far as force organisation goes. When the armies are send to war the council a leader for a force from it's head quarters staff and then selects units from each temple according to the mission. On occassion the force is made up of soley one temple, but this normally only happens with Ox or Dog company.

[czertowicz]

An ideal oppurtunity to add some paraphrasing of Sun Tzu!

 

"What the Emperor called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."

 

So you're suggesting that the Captains sit on the council, are assigned a campaign or operation and then pick out the troops they need to achieve it? Nice twist. And your companies can specialise in a very specific aspect of warfare rather than mixing and matching.

 

After going through the company names, I can't get the image of a monkey with a jump pack dropping bananas on bemused Chaos marines out of my head. :D

[Son of Sanguin]

Each animal in the zodiac has different personality traits and I want to reflect that in each one hence all the squads being of the same type.

 

I like the quote btw. I think if will fit nicely into my army.

 

The council will consist of all Captains, Head Librarian, Head Chaplin, Head Tech Marine and The Chapter Master. The main head quarters will have other officers as well who will be given the role of captain or there will be a veteran given the rank of captain for a campaign if he shows exceptional leadership skills (a bit like BT have their Castilans).

 

I might have to do an animal mascot for each company. The monkey from the empire handgunners might do it.

 

"Guns don't kill people, People do....And so do monkeys, if they have a gun" Eddie Izzard

[Arkangilos]

So, these might sound rough, but I am not trying to at all, so bear with me :P

 

Well, there really isn't much to go off of yet, but I wouldn't recommend straying from the codex in the way you have for several reasons:

 

The codex is actually more tactically flexible than what you have

There is no need for a second scout company in itself, the scout company has no "real" limits

 

Terminator armor is EXTREMELY rare and hard to find. VERY FEW chapters actually have more than a handful, and the majority of those would be first founding. You would need some good fluff as to how you came out with some.

 

No chapter (with the exception of two: The Space Wolves, who have NO successors (at least officially, I don't buy that whole situation, but the point remains), and if they did they would be like wolves, and the Black Templars, who also have NO successors and risk getting into trouble) have a deviation this extreme from the Codex. You would also have to explain why they deviated from the Codex, when their parent chapter supported it.

 

And that brings me to my next point: What gene-seed do they use?

[Son of Sanguin]

The split in the scout company comes from initiates who are just beginning their lives as marines and the more experienced (veteran) scouts who have access you the more powerful weapons as they have proven themselves. That is the basic fluff reason.

 

I get your reasoning behind questioning the terminator armour and I will come up with a good story to help explain it.

 

each company belongs to a different temple, each one teaches a unique outlook and thus the 12 companies all being one squad type. This problem the brought up how the tactics would work. In a Codex army you get 440 Tactical marines, 180 Assault Marines and 180 Devastator Marines. In my force you get 400 Tactical Marines, 200 Assault Marines and 200 Devastator Marines. I think you can agree not a massive difference. If you then look at the fact that you Marine asked to lead the campaign gets to choose who he wants from any company he wants then you actually get a more versatile force.

 

Point two about force organisation. The way a new chapter operates has nothing to do with its parent chapter. The Administratum will have entire new chapters created from scratch. A chapter doesn't have to follow the Codex and they won't be branded heretic for it.

 

Final question you asked was about the gene seed. My Idea for that is that the chapter originally was told it was White Scars stock. After recent testing of the gene stock it isn't white scars and the parent gene seed is currently unknown.

 

I apologize if I have come across a little strong there, I didn't mean to.

 

I came on here to get asked questions and have thing pointed out to me.

 

One last thing, I know a lot of old school fluff that may have changed. I've been collecting since 2nd ed (I'm only 23, dad started me young)

[Arkangilos]

The split in the scout company comes from initiates who are just beginning their lives as marines and the more experienced (veteran) scouts who have access you the more powerful weapons as they have proven themselves. That is the basic fluff reason.

 

I get your reasoning behind questioning the terminator armour and I will come up with a good story to help explain it.

 

each company belongs to a different temple, each one teaches a unique outlook and thus the 12 companies all being one squad type. This problem the brought up how the tactics would work. In a Codex army you get 440 Tactical marines, 180 Assault Marines and 180 Devastator Marines. In my force you get 400 Tactical Marines, 200 Assault Marines and 200 Devastator Marines. I think you can agree not a massive difference. If you then look at the fact that you Marine asked to lead the campaign gets to choose who he wants from any company he wants then you actually get a more versatile force.

 

Point two about force organisation. The way a new chapter operates has nothing to do with its parent chapter. The Administratum will have entire new chapters created from scratch. A chapter doesn't have to follow the Codex and they won't be branded heretic for it.

 

Final question you asked was about the gene seed. My Idea for that is that the chapter originally was told it was White Scars stock. After recent testing of the gene stock it isn't white scars and the parent gene seed is currently unknown.

 

I apologize if I have come across a little strong there, I didn't mean to.

 

I came on here to get asked questions and have thing pointed out to me.

 

One last thing, I know a lot of old school fluff that may have changed. I've been collecting since 2nd ed (I'm only 23, dad started me young)

 

Well, I'm not saying don't do any of these, these are just questions that will help build the fluff.

 

I don't think the gene-seed one will work though. It would be better if they just never knew, or their records got destroyed.

 

The Temple thing makes a lot of sense.

 

However, for the most part, 99.9 percent of the time, chapters do have to follow the codex. The only two exceptions are the Space Wolves (a first founding), and the Black Templars (and it is guess at how much they have).

 

Now, that is to a degree of course, they don't have to be 100 percent codex followers, BUT they at least have to be within reasonable ranges. I don't think your chapter falls to far out of that, but it is cutting it close.

 

I do like the temple idea though. Could you give some examples of what each temple would believe?

[voi shet magir]

Nearly all of that is misinformation. There aren't any codex police inspecting the number of companies in a chapter. Chapters just can't have 2400 marines and they can't have too many lance armed ships or mortal troops. They can usually even do those things if they aren't obnoxious about it. Especially true for the Ox temple, which is probably just a fifty to sixty marines at a time.

 

The geneseed is totally acceptable, and I'd like to know what the reasons are for inserting that detail. It's probably better than no story at all.

[Son of Sanguin]

The reason for the gene seed thing is for roleplay purposes. I'm also writing the rules for using them in deathwatch. Gives plenty of hooks. Also I like the idea of a conspiricy. It leads the CM to think as to if the imperium had any knowledge. Leading to developing plot lines and even doing an alternate chapter story that leads them to heresy.

 

I today bought a copy of the art of war and will really begin to plot out fluff. My first job will be doing the temples own backgrounds followed by the chapters on history as a whole inc. Campaigns.

 

If anyone knowsof any good books on chinese mythology and history of anciet china it will be a big help. I don't trust wiki as far as i can throw the golden throne and searching the internet isn't too easy.

 

Cheers in advance

[Arkangilos]

Nearly all of that is misinformation. There aren't any codex police inspecting the number of companies in a chapter. Chapters just can't have 2400 marines and they can't have too many lance armed ships or mortal troops. They can usually even do those things if they aren't obnoxious about it. Especially true for the Ox temple, which is probably just a fifty to sixty marines at a time.

 

The geneseed is totally acceptable, and I'd like to know what the reasons are for inserting that detail. It's probably better than no story at all.

 

 

Hence why I said, "Within reasonable ranges."

I did not say they had to follow it one hundred percent, but chapters DO have to follow certain guidelines. That was the point of the codex in the first place. I was merely saying that this is along the far edge of the "reasonable" guideline, and I am not even saying it is wrong. Just saying that there should be a good story to it.

Honestly, if you go back and read what I had said, you would see very clearly that I said, "it does not fall too far out of the reasonable ranges" <- (paraphrased).

 

However, I do maintain that the gene-seed one should be known, or forgotten. You don't just "think" you are the Imperial Fist successor chapter. If you weren't, you wouldn't have the genetic problems they have (non-working organs). You don't just "think" you were the Blood Angels successors, if you were, you would know it because you would have people screaming out, "I AM SANGUINIUS!" and going crazy.

 

Almost all chapters have some KNOWN difference in their gene-seed that would make it clear.

 

HOWEVER, with that said, the Dark Angels and Ultramarines do have really pure gene-seeds (I am not sure about the White Scars, but you may know this one), so if your genetic records were LOST you could argue that.

 

As for the parental chapter not meaning anything because they are self sufficient: that IS wrong, because they take a training cadre from the parental chapter to teach the new chapter how to run. That cadre would be TRUE to its parental chapter. If the parent chapter was codex, they would teach the new chapter to be codex. So you need to explain how they came to be codex deviants.

[NightrawenII]

each company belongs to a different temple, each one teaches a unique outlook and thus the 12 companies all being one squad type. This problem the brought up how the tactics would work. In a Codex army you get 440 Tactical marines, 180 Assault Marines and 180 Devastator Marines. In my force you get 400 Tactical Marines, 200 Assault Marines and 200 Devastator Marines. I think you can agree not a massive difference. If you then look at the fact that you Marine asked to lead the campaign gets to choose who he wants from any company he wants then you actually get a more versatile force.

... and they would be nearly useless as a unit, because the cooperation and coordination between various weapons is non-existant.

 

Point two about force organisation. The way a new chapter operates has nothing to do with its parent chapter. The Administratum will have entire new chapters created from scratch. A chapter doesn't have to follow the Codex and they won't be branded heretic for it.

Negative.

The Administratum has limited influence in creation of new Chapters, the responsibility belongs almost exclusively to Adeptus Mechanicus.

+

The new Chapter is trained by the cadre of veterans send by the parent Chapter, so yes the new Chapter does resemble, at least first few centuries, its parent Chapter in combat doctrine, traditions and organisation. Moreover, Adeptus Astartes are, like the rest of Imperium, driven by dogma and tradition, therefore any radical changes has to be well justified.

 

Before you continue with your DIY, I would suggest you to read the Guide to DIYing and Octaguide 2.0.

 

---

On rather unrelated note; I have seen similar projects before, and to be honest such thing never goes well, because it's simply too complex and ovecomplicated - the principle of Occam's Razor, I presume.

 

 

~NightrawenII