Wolf Lords

[Matt D]

out of the 13 wolf lord in our codex i only know the symbols for 12. but what of Bjorns? is there any reference for his anywhere?

[Mac the knife]

The Thirteenth great company is lost. Russ sent them to pursue Magnus through the warp. They haven't been to the Fang in over 10,000 years. The stone of the 13th company in the fang now represents all companies that have been lost.

 

Bjorn wasn't in charge of an individual company from my remembering he was the first Great Wolf after Russ' departure so his symbol would've been the wolf that stalks the stars. The same symbol Logan now bears.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Remember that the company markings shown in the codex are but a snapshot in time.

 

Each new Jarl chooses his own symbol on elevation to command of a Great Company.

 

So, for example, my own GC carry the spiritwolf.

[Mac the knife]

While each now Jarl may choose his own company markings, if that Jarl becomes the Great Wolf his old company markings are replaced by that of the Great Wolf.

[hendrik]

While each now Jarl may choose his own company markings, if that Jarl becomes the Great Wolf his old company markings are replaced by that of the Great Wolf.

i'm not to sure if that's correct, care to indicate where you got that idea? since in the grand analus the companies stone remains the same after their lord become the great wolf, it is only the runestone with the wolf that stalks between the starts that gets turned. i always assumed the company kept its own mark, possible also adding the wolf that stalks between the stars but still keeping their old marking

[littlbitz]

I read somewhere, that when a wolf lord dies, the stone is pulled, and is placed in a hall of honor. The new Wolf Lord chooses his own Symbol, and a new stone is placed in its place.

So that the new Wolf Lord begins his own Saga

[Mac the knife]

Hendrick. I can't remember where I read it but IIRC when a new Great Wolf is chosen the entire company of the new great wolf takes the "wolf that stalks the stars" markings. I interpreted that as once a Jarl becomes the Great wolf they lose their old markings because there would be no further use for the prior markings. The Great Wolf will always have the mark of the Wolf that Stalks the Stars and maintain the honor of the mark until Russ returns for the wolftime. There isn't any point to continue using any markings from before a wolf lord becomes the great wolf.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

While each now Jarl may choose his own company markings, if that Jarl becomes the Great Wolf his old company markings are replaced by that of the Great Wolf.

i'm not to sure if that's correct, care to indicate where you got that idea? since in the grand analus the companies stone remains the same after their lord become the great wolf, it is only the runestone with the wolf that stalks between the starts that gets turned. i always assumed the company kept its own mark, possible also adding the wolf that stalks between the stars but still keeping their old marking

 

I'm with Hendrik, I cannot recall anything that indicates the GC changes their symbol to the Wolf That Stalks Between Stars. Indeed p. 16 of the current dex seems to indicate they retain the original symbol. The Wolf That Stalks is the symbol of the Great Wolf and Chapter HQ, ie RPs, WPs, IPs, WSs - unless they are attached to a GC, whereupon they seemingly take on that GC's symbol.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Hendrick. I can't remember where I read it but IIRC when a new Great Wolf is chosen the entire company of the new great wolf takes the "wolf that stalks the stars" markings. I interpreted that as once a Jarl becomes the Great wolf they lose their old markings because there would be no further use for the prior markings. The Great Wolf will always have the mark of the Wolf that Stalks the Stars and maintain the honor of the mark until Russ returns for the wolftime. There isn't any point to continue using any markings from before a wolf lord becomes the great wolf.

 

I definitely remember seeing this somewhere... Now I need to pore over everything I own just to find this.

[hendrik]

don't worry mac, i seem to recall something amongst those lines aswell but since i can't find where i really find the grand analus contradicting it.from a space wolf honour bound point i also find it a bit weird that they would just discard their old mark and with it their glory and sagas.

going over it again i've found a great contradiction about the company of the great wolf. it says that the 12th great company is the great company, yet when the old wolf dies he is chosen from the current 12 wolf lords. however with the great wolf tdead there only are 11 wolf lords left...

i always thought there were 12 great companies with their wolf lord and than there was the company of the great wolf, a company consisting of the chapters priestshoods and dreadnoughts so in effect 13 companies, right?

 

in the codex on page 14 it mentions that the great wolfs emblem is always the same. yet it only speaks about the great wolf and not his company

edit: on page 80 in the codex it is mentioned that when a wolf lord becomes the great wolf his company adopts the symbol of the great wolf.

they seem to keep their headstone though

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

don't worry mac, i seem to recall something amongst those lines aswell but since i can't find where i really find the grand analus contradicting it.from a space wolf honour bound point i also find it a bit weird that they would just discard their old mark and with it their glory and sagas.

going over it again i've found a great contradiction about the company of the great wolf. it says that the 12th great company is the great company, yet when the old wolf dies he is chosen from the current 12 wolf lords. however with the great wolf tdead there only are 11 wolf lords left...

i always thought there were 12 great companies with their wolf lord and than there was the company of the great wolf, a company consisting of the chapters priestshoods and dreadnoughts so in effect 13 companies, right?

 

in the codex on page 14 it mentions that the great wolfs emblem is always the same. yet it only speaks about the great wolf and not his company

edit: on page 80 in the codex it is mentioned that when a wolf lord becomes the great wolf his company adopts the symbol of the great wolf.

they seem to keep their headstone though

 

The company of the Great Wolf isn't one of the twelve Great Companies. So thirteen+ companies, but only twelve Great Companies.

 

As to the number of Wolf Lords: when one dies, their Great Company elects a new leader from within their number. If it's the Great Wolf who dies, then 'his' GC elects a new jarl and the twelve Wolf Lords then elect a new Great Wolf - simplies...

[hendrik]

that's how i imagined it also after i posted it here. still feels a bit weird a newly selected wolf lord would have a chance for becoming the next great wolf

[Ragnar_Blackmane]

that's how i imagined it also after i posted it here. still feels a bit weird a newly selected wolf lord would have a chance for becoming the next great wolf

That doesn't mean that the other Jarls will support him (it's rather unlikely to be honest). In theory even a Blood Claw could be selected to become a Wolf Lord which is even more absurd, even if it almost never happens (Ragnar being the exception, but as a Wolf Blade and including the fact that he would have been promoted to Grey Hunter if he hadn't cast the Spear of Russ into the Warp that surely set him apart from the rookies).

[Russ Brother 92]

from the way it seems is that each Wolf Lord is chosen fresh from among the dead ones Wolf Guard by those self same Wolf Guard, then upon the passing of the Great Wolf, the now 11 Wolf Lords + the newest Wolf Lord vote - the winner becomes the Great Wolf - the old Great Wolf's stone is taken to the garden to surround the original which was Russ' stone, a new stone is placed (for the new Wolf Lord replacing him) then after the vote the central stone with the Wolf That Stalks The Stars is turned to whomever is chosen as the new Great Wolf - thus every single stone EXCEPT the central stone changes every time a new Wolf Lord is chosen/dies - it seems that the Great Wolf's company would have the choice to either take up the emblem of Russ or keep the one they had as per before (which is imo more likely as everyone would know they are from the Great Wolf's company and they would still be adding to the saga).

[Valerian]

that's how i imagined it also after i posted it here. still feels a bit weird a newly selected wolf lord would have a chance for becoming the next great wolf

That doesn't mean that the other Jarls will support him (it's rather unlikely to be honest). In theory even a Blood Claw could be selected to become a Wolf Lord which is even more absurd, even if it almost never happens (Ragnar being the exception, but as a Wolf Blade and including the fact that he would have been promoted to Grey Hunter if he hadn't cast the Spear of Russ into the Warp that surely set him apart from the rookies).

 

Correction for you, Ragnar Blackmane did not go straight from Blood Claw to Wolf Lord; he went from Blood Claw to Wolf Guard. He was never a Grey Hunter, but he did spend some time in Berek Thunderfist's Wolf Guard before rising to take his place as Wolf Lord.

 

Back to the original discussion:

 

"In addition to the Great Companies there is the household of the Great Wolf himself, within whose walls dwell the Chapter's priests and Dreadnoughts. The emblem of the Great Wolf's company is always the wolf rampant, the wolf that stalks the stars; the emblem of Russ himself. When a new Great Wolf is elected his followers from his Great Company will either replace their old insignia with the sign of the Wolf Rampant, or add the sign to the their armor so that they bear both their old sign and their new one." White Dwarf 246.

 

So, Logan Grimnar would command and control the household of the Great Wolf, including all of the various Priests and Dreadnoughts, as well as his actual traditional Great Company from back when he was "just" a Wolf Lord. Likely those Marines changed to the Wolf Rampant when he was elevated, but many probably moved the old symbol to another location on their armour.

 

Valerian

[Brother Nemiel]

that's how i imagined it also after i posted it here. still feels a bit weird a newly selected wolf lord would have a chance for becoming the next great wolf

That doesn't mean that the other Jarls will support him (it's rather unlikely to be honest). In theory even a Blood Claw could be selected to become a Wolf Lord which is even more absurd, even if it almost never happens (Ragnar being the exception, but as a Wolf Blade and including the fact that he would have been promoted to Grey Hunter if he hadn't cast the Spear of Russ into the Warp that surely set him apart from the rookies).

 

Correction for you, Ragnar Blackmane did not go straight from Blood Claw to Wolf Lord; he went from Blood Claw to Wolf Guard. He was never a Grey Hunter, but he did spend some time in Berek Thunderfist's Wolf Guard before rising to take his place as Wolf Lord.

 

I'm pretty sure he was a Wolfblade according to the Space Wolf Novel series. In fact, I'm reading them now (again). Unless the book "Wolfblade" is considered out of canon.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

He was a member of the Wolf Blade, but i dont believe thats a traditional rank inside the Fang.

 

he went: unruly youth------->blood claw (unruly youth in power armor)------->wolf blade------->wolf guard------->wolf lord

 

WLK

[Valerian]

Wolfblades, to my knowledge, have never been mentioned in any Studio fluff, so the White Dwarfs and codices progression for Ragnar goes: Blood Claw->Wolf Guard->Wolf Lord.

 

The Wolfblade concept is solely King's because he, presumably, needed something for his Ragnar to do to fill another novel. If you include Black Library works in your canon (which is a completely valid approach, just not one that I subscribe to), then yes, he spent some time assigned out on loan as a Wolfblade.

 

Best,

 

Valerian