brother-kormak Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Greetings all ! I am getting to the meat of it.. I want to make a Chapter that has character.. Something that doesnt stand out too far, but that is noticably different from the rest... Upon typing that out I realized how naft it sounded.. KK different approach, heres the ideas I have currently.. Whats the general thoughts on this... ------Armarment---- No Termies No heavy armour support Nothing bigger than Predator No plasma weapons Very mobile Basic armarment ( ie; missle launchers, heavy bolters.flamers,few meltas) -------Models------ brown paintjob, with red and white contrast colors or go with turqouise some pelts, tails, etc from the SW sprues -------Gene-seed------- White Scars gene-seed (for the savage nature) Shorter than average marines (due to the humans being very short before implantation) Possible Native American feel So.. Think I am being too limiting in my choices ?? Paint scheme ATM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Firstly, welcome to the forum. Secondly, the link in your post doesn’t seem to be working. Now on to the meat of your post…more information is needed to give accurate feedback. Nothing bigger than a predator? No heavy armour support? Are you running something other than Standard Space Marines? Predators are generally a Heavy Support choice. When you say nothing bigger than a Predator are you referring to Land Raiders? The Predator is built on the Rhino chassis, as is the Vindicator. Will you not be using Vindicators in your army? Very mobile Are you building an Assault based army? Are you planning to max out the fast attack options on the force organization chart or did you mean something else? Example: tactical squads with dedicated transports would be very mobile as well. No plasma weapons Is their a fluff reason for not using plasma weapons? Shorter than average marines How short are we talking? Do they have the stature of a squat or ratling? Is the planet inhabited by pigmies? Implantation of the specialized space marine organs generally begins between the ages of 10-14. It is set to coincide with the beginning of puberty. The initial implants release hormones that supercharge the natural changes taking place in the subject’s body. IIRC, the implants are designed to override the natural growth process, striving for an ideal (standardized) marine form and physique...which makes it easier to mass produce power armor. Of course variations, deficiencies and mutations within the geneseed occur. A malfunctioning or mutated Ossmodual (affects bone growth and density) might account for the shorter stature. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2984763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother-kormak Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks for the welcome and appreciate you taking the time.. k fixed the linkage.. I had orginally not wanted anything with more firepower than a Razorback.. I was kinda worried that limiting myself that drasticly would be hard to explain.. I should have stopped and thought about it more.. I hadnt planned on using Vindicators, or any significant armoured prescense that is.. Besides transports.. Moblie in a fast response application.. ie; Tac squads with Rhinos, Devs in Razorbacks, etc.. Sorta of a White Scars layout but with Assault troops instead of bikers.. No fluff reason, however I (dice wise) have zero luck with plasma weapons.. I usually manged to wound or outright kill off my plasma weaponry peeps.. Ahhh I had forgotten that about the implants.. I suppose that will need to be scratched out.. I would rather them be clear from any gene seed mutations.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2984826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think you could go with a mechanized assault theme. Razorbacks/Rhinos only kind of thing. Fluff wise with plasma guns you could just use meltas instead as they are more assault oriented anyway. Like the color scheme. No one, NO ONE, has done a brown scheme. That would be a nice change of pace. I was thinking about doing one before as I keep seeing a brown PBR bottle with the label and thinking how that could be a good scheme. Go for it. I also like the native american theme. Done a couple times but not enough in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2988532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofric Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 ------Armarment----No Termies No heavy armour support Nothing bigger than Predator No plasma weapons Very mobile Basic armarment ( ie; missle launchers, heavy bolters.flamers,few meltas) -------Models------ brown paintjob, with red and white contrast colors or go with turqouise some pelts, tails, etc from the SW sprues -------Gene-seed------- White Scars gene-seed (for the savage nature) Shorter than average marines (due to the humans being very short before implantation) Possible Native American feel Paint scheme ATM This set of restrictions would not be particularly unreasonable, as all it is doing is giving your chapter less to work with than the idealised codex marine force It is suggested in fluff that later founding chapters tend to get less of the goodies (ie relic technology such as land raiders, TDA and dreadnought hulls) than earlier chapters, so the lack of terminators and land raiders would not be a major issue, altenately it could mean that your chapter's Armoury can no longer repair those devices for one reason for another and so does not rely on them in its battle tactics. Simlarly with the lack of plasma and preference to more 'simple' armaments could also mean a problem with the chapters techmarines, who over the course of the chapters lifetime have lost the knowledge to make/maintain plasma based weaponry and instead 'bulk out' the armoury with easier to obtain/repair alternatives. There are chapters who go vehicle light (Iron snakes and Mantis warriors for example) but the Rhino and its variants (predator, Vindicator etc) are considered to be fairly 'easy' STC patterns to construct (at least according to IA9 and 10) so it'd be worrying if the armoury couldn't build/maintain these to at least some extent. They are also pretty important for keeping a chapter 'mobile' and providing 'mobile' Fire support Another issue would be how far does this loss of knowledge/technical ability go? did they have a major fall out with their assigned forgeworld who will no longer train their techmarines/supply equipment or is there some deeper reason? Also does it effect their chapter fleet? A space marine chapter which can't get to any warzones isn't much use overall to the Imperium. All the rest sounds a good base to start on BTW if you have shorter-than-average marines then at least your models might actually be the right size in comparison to the rest of the range! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2991455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Like the color scheme. No one, NO ONE, has done a brown scheme. That's news to me, I keep running up brown colourschemes for myself and others all the time. :P Depending on whether you count Dheneb Stone as grey or brown (or both), up to three of my DIY's use brown heavily in their scheme. ;) Back on topic, however. Native American assault heavy marines, eh? Sounds good. What sort of Native American influences did you have in mind? There's plenty to draw on from those cultures, and I think one of the risks with that theme is over-flavouring the chapter. If you're after a reason for a lack of heavy equipment, you could have had the Mechanicus ship delivering the goods perhaps boarded/destroyed by Traitors/pirates eager for some new toys, possibly whilst the ship was close to your Chapter's homeworld. The AdMech could then be a bit ticked that you didn't protect the ship, and put you on the bottom of the list for the next batch of supplies, which have been mysteriously delayed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2991724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew J Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ace I meant actually painted. It is quite rare to see them in the WIP or HofH section. Maybe I went a little too overboard... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2991772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ace I meant actually painted. It is quite rare to see them in the WIP or HofH section. Maybe I went a little too overboard... Oh, right. Carry on! :wub: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2991882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Like the color scheme. No one, NO ONE, has done a brown scheme. Well, there's good reason for that. Who wants marines, who look like they have fallen in to cesspit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2992001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The chapter need not be ill-favored by the Adeptus Mechanicus. It could be that their battle doctrine, tactics or the terrain in which they are specialized in fighting does not favor armored vehicles. Being that this is a successor chapter of the White Scars, they might use bike units. They could also be planetary assault specialists, utilizing drop pods for rapid deployment. Instead of having vindicators or predator tanks for heavy support, the Chapter may rely on Dreadnought for heavy support. Since vehicles and units from the Imperial Armor forge world supplements have become legal for tournaments in my area, I have been working on an army based around dreadnought drop pods (which allow the dreadnought to charge on the turn it lands). The chapter might have a larger than normal number of Dreadnoughts. They might also use Thunder Fire Cannons or Devastator units (both also deployed by drop pod) to provide heavy fire support. Units can also be made mobile by attaching a librarian with Gate of Infinity. Many people may be aware of its usefulness in assault, but it is just as useful for defensive actions, to grab strategic points (seize objectives) or draw out the enemy. You can use Gate of Infinity to leave hand-to-hand. If the enemy has engaged you in the open this could leave them open to fire from the rest of your army. A combination of such units and tactics could remove the need for armored vehicles. It might also help if the Chapter was fleet based. That might also help to explain why the chapter is “light” on vehicles. Drop pods take up less space. The chapter might rely more heavily on Storm Ravens (Can’t wait till their available for codex marines). The Chapter may also use massed squadrons of speeders for mobile heavy support and / or Land Speeder storms for ferrying scout squads into battle. Not every army needs armored vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2992020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The chapter need not be ill-favored by the Adeptus Mechanicus. It could be that their battle doctrine, tactics or the terrain in which they are specialized in fighting does not favor armored vehicles. Being that this is a successor chapter of the White Scars, they might use bike units. They could also be planetary assault specialists, utilizing drop pods for rapid deployment. *facepalm* How many times I have to correct this fallacy?!? :P Adeptus Astartes are planetary assault specialists by default. That's what they do most of the time, it's right here... under their role description. Saying that Chapter specializes in planetary assault is like saying the apple tree specializes in growing apples, it's the same fallacious logic. :P The utilization of armoured assets has nothing to do with deployment. Look at the Blood Angels, >deleted by the Holy Ordos of His Inquisition<, they have (deep-striking) Land Raiders all over the place for no apparent reason, yet they are conceptually airborne force. It's more to do with the environment and objective of the specific mission. The explanation of "We don't use vehicles, because we don't need them." is just set on the head and doesn't make sense. ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2992377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think the OP doesn't want any heavy vehicles in his army because he just doesn't want to use them in the game (?). Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2992389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 How many times I have to correct this fallacy?!? :D Adeptus Astartes are planetary assault specialists by default. That's what they do most of the time, it's right here... under their role description. Saying that Chapter specializes in planetary assault is like saying the apple tree specializes in growing apples, it's the same fallacious logic. :blink: Yes and a Macintosh apple is the same as a Red Delicious, a Granny Smith or a Crab Apple right? I guess slamming your face into your palm may have obscured the rest of that sentence…the part about drop pods as versus other modes of delivering troops to the battle ground. I don’t think I ever indicated that other space marine chapters did not undertake planetary assaults. In your little rant, you also seemed to have missed the part about specific terrains. Armored vehicles are less effective and can even be a liability in certain theaters of operation. The explanation of "We don't use vehicles, because we don't need them." is just set on the head and doesn't make sense. Obviously you didn’t fully read brother-kormak’s post. He never said he was getting rid of all vehicles and neither did I in my response. B-K also isn’t running Blood Angels, but I guess given your “apple analogy” everyone should be able to deep strike land raiders and have equal access to them, because obviously to you every situation is the same as is every planetary assault and every marine chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2992485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother-kormak Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Greetings !! Damn this thread blew up with brainstorming.. KK to the meat then.. I am trying to go with the White Scars styled fluff with these guys.. A quick fast striking force.. No emplacments nothing that couldnt fire on the move as it were.. However, I am going to attempt to plausibly explain why they would be using jump packs, to a higher degree than bikes.. Since it doesnt lend wieght to my points if the rhinos are being used heavily and the bikes are not.. In relation to that point I am coming up blank at the moment.. KK to responses.. Ludovic- Nail on the head.. As I stated I want a White Scars flavored feel.. NightrawenII- I see your point, however I dont want land raiders, vindicators, whirlwinds, etc; just on my feeling that those kinds of heavy armour wont fit into the feel of this force.. Lol, I have seen plenty of cesspits in my time.. When things fall in, they usually come out looking black..Just FYI.. Destecado- I like that point about using Dreadnoughts.. I had originally thought about not using them.. Since that goes against the White Scars fluff ( according to what I have read) however my guys would be more inclinded to use them.. Ancestor worship and all.. I just need to spin a effective and mobile delivery system for them into combat and extraction.. Ace Debonair- I was thinking Crow or Souix.. I need to get back to my research on the assorted Nations and pick one out.. Leofric- I like that idea about the Triators/Pirates... Perhaps in the course of founding these chaps a Warp Storm blew the AdMech ship off course and they had to adapt to the hit and run style in the first place ?? The short flaw is why I wanted then general populace to be litte uns.. I think it could be pretty nifty fluff wise that other marines and chaos are a foot or two/three taller than my guys.. Andrew J- Nail= Head.. I am rushing these responses since I got to be to work soon.. I will continue in depth later on.. Also, thanks for the comments and the ideas everyone.. Its really getting the gears turning.. Although NightRawen, I really didnt want to think about work first thing in the mornin.. :D Have fun yall !! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2993320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How many times I have to correct this fallacy?!? :o Adeptus Astartes are planetary assault specialists by default. That's what they do most of the time, it's right here... under their role description. Saying that Chapter specializes in planetary assault is like saying the apple tree specializes in growing apples, it's the same fallacious logic. ;) Yes and a Macintosh apple is the same as a Red Delicious, a Granny Smith or a Crab Apple right? I guess slamming your face into your palm may have obscured the rest of that sentence…the part about drop pods as versus other modes of delivering troops to the battle ground. I don’t think I ever indicated that other space marine chapters did not undertake planetary assaults. I didn't miss anything, that was part of my rant. Let me explain this again. B) All Chapters in broad spectrum of brotherhood are planetary assault specialists a-and what is the most typical method of deployment in these missions...? *drumroll* wait for it... Yeah, it's drop-pod assault. Therefore the idea of drop-pod planetary assault specialists is just facepalm-worthy, because what do you propose as something special or original is just bog-standard method of deployment for Space Marines... Now, when the errorness of your ways lies bare and visible before you, can we move on and focus on the topic at hand? In your little rant, you also seemed to have missed the part about specific terrains. Armored vehicles are less effective and can even be a liability in certain theaters of operation. Say, again?!? :huh: It's more to do with the environment and objective of the specific mission. :mellow: The explanation of "We don't use vehicles, because we don't need them." is just set on the head and doesn't make sense. Obviously you didn’t fully read brother-kormak’s post. He never said he was getting rid of all vehicles and neither did I in my response. Then, why do you act like I'm atacking you or brother-kormak? In my country, we have this saying; "The stricken duck always quacks." But I won't do any such misguided asumptions, because obviously you are not jumping on conclusions in blind anger that someone had the audacity to laugh at your well-thought creation. Welcome in the Liber Astartes, I hope you will enjoy your stay... ;) B-K also isn’t running Blood Angels, but I guess given your “apple analogy” everyone should be able to deep strike land raiders and have equal access to them, because obviously to you every situation is the same as is every planetary assault and every marine chapter. Oh, now we are at the crux of the matter, aren't we? Ed Gruberman, you have failed to grasp Ti-kwan-leep. Approach me that you might see. Observe closely students: What makes a Chapter different from the rest of the Chapters? It's the character of the Chapter, all other things are just supplementary. It's how the apple tastes, not how the apple looks or where it grows or how far has fallen from the tree. Meditate upon this wisdom. @brother-kormak The Space Marines, amongst other things, are fast-response force (well, they don't have much choice in this, but I digress...) and anything you can see in their arsenal can be deployed planet-side ASAP, if the captain wishes it. The thing is; You don't need such detailed explanation. The Index Astartes article* is not some kind of list of justifications for tabletop. In fact, that's what we, the Liberites, try to prevent from happening. Just say, *the yet-to-be-named-Chapter favours the lightning warfare of their forefathers, the White Scars* and you will be fine. The less details you give to reader, the less nit-picking there will be. Really, focus on WHO you want them to be - What, when and how will come to you naturally. *If you want to write one, that's it. ~NightrawenII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2993481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother-kormak Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 NightrawenII- Mmmk , I like how planly put that line is.. "" Just say, *the yet-to-be-named-Chapter favours the lightning warfare of their forefathers, the White Scars* and you will be fine. "" Works on multiple levels and doesnt trigger a deep thought on the matter.. Thanks for putting it rather planly for me... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246570-tapping-the-collective/#findComment-2993829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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