Something Wycked Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This is a splinter from the +OR+ thread about Blood Lance. The rules question was settled and started branching to tactics. Have any of you considered that Blood Lance might perform well in an anti-infantry role instead of anti-vehicle? Sure, you're ignoring that it has the "Lance" rule, but you can treat it almost like a template, dropping the Blood Lance line on top of several infantry models and denying them their armor saves. This might be a particularly potent weapon against Paladins- it ignores FnP if they have it, inflicts Instant Death, and requires them to try their Invulnerable saves rather than their 2+ armor. I know that Blood Lance is generally regarded as a sub-par choice when it comes to Libbies and Dread Libbies, but what are some effective uses of Blood Lance that you have found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Personally, I put Blood Lance about 5th on the list of BA powers after Unleash Rage, Shield, Sword, and Fear. The main issue with Lance is I almost always want one of the others more, so I don't take it anymore. About the only place to take it I feel is on a Deepstriking Librarian (preferably joined ot Dante to avoid scatter) and when facing a parking lot list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefires Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I was hoping to Drop pod a Librarian dread with fear and blood lance on the Necrons that keep night fighting up all the time either lance the vehicles or fear Immotek inc. off the board. Is lance worth it in this instance or should I just be using another furioso? Also I cannot mount a spotlight on the Libby dread to spotlight a vehicle for my storm ravens to sink blood strikes into so this presents another drawback. After the thread Something Wycked was referring to it is not generally accepted that blood lance ignores or does not ignore a cover save, and you may be saving yourself a headache from rules lawyering with your opponent to just take melta instead… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Personally, Hatesfire, I would not think that was worth it. Its significantly more expensive than a regular dread, a multimelta is more likely to kill the vehicle (assuming it hits, Lance does have that advantage going for it) and how likely is it to get more than 1 vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Its completely dependent on the opponent's deployment. If they're expecting to get a Libby Dread with Blood Lance to the face on turn 1, then they can spread out their units to help ensure the Lance will only hit 1 target. But that can, in and of itself, be a boon for you. If your opponent is spread out, it will be harder for them to concentrate force on your army, increasing your survivability. It can also increase your lethality if you then concentrate your force against their spread out force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 the problem is that it only inflicts one hit per unit under the line. so ever if its seveal models they might be in the same unit and so only 1 hit, which sure is an auto hit and therefore more likely to kill something than a melta but it means 1 less power you can cast that turn, wher as you can use the melta and still have another power you can use in the assault phase.. such as sword or rage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Blood Lance is so tempting to use, but at the end of the day, something more reliable is a better choice. If I had to use it to maximum effectiveness, I'd be inclined to saturate the enemy deployment zone with it. Two Libby Dreads and two standard Libby's, all in drop pods, coming in on turn one. Designing a good list around that concept would be messy, but I reckon it's doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think the most effective way to implement Blood Lance has already been mentioned by James. JP Librarian + Dante with a 4x meltagun HG dropping in behind some armoured vehicles and plugging it with Lance and some melta shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think the most effective way to implement Blood Lance has already been mentioned by James.JP Librarian + Dante with a 4x meltagun HG dropping in behind some armoured vehicles and plugging it with Lance and some melta shots. five melta and one lance shot @ 555 pts... that's a lot to pop one vehicle before getting blasted or counter charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think the most effective way to implement Blood Lance has already been mentioned by James.JP Librarian + Dante with a 4x meltagun HG dropping in behind some armoured vehicles and plugging it with Lance and some melta shots. five melta and one lance shot @ 555 pts... that's a lot to pop one vehicle before getting blasted or counter charged. Well that is why you use it for a big point game. It is more worth it when your popping a Land Raider loaded with a heavy squad or a monolith. It isn't for a 1k pt match and, depending on the opponent, probably not for 1500 as well. Remember Dante also has Hit and Run with a good shot to get out of an assault to fire again later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think the most effective way to implement Blood Lance has already been mentioned by James.JP Librarian + Dante with a 4x meltagun HG dropping in behind some armoured vehicles and plugging it with Lance and some melta shots. five melta and one lance shot @ 555 pts... that's a lot to pop one vehicle before getting blasted or counter charged. Sure, that's true. If the unit is in sight of other enemy units. This might not be the case. If the unit is exposed to AP1/AP2. This might not be the case. If the unit is in assault range of an enemy unit with an initiative over 6 and equipped with power weapons. This also might not be the case. Running a high points unit is risky but the situation may play right into its hands. Alternatively the HG could run with plasma guns with the librarian using smite, drop in next to someone's HQ and plug them with 8 s8/AP2, 4 s4 AP2 and 1 s9 AP1 shots. That's gotta hurt something. I'll test it out when I finish making the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I was hoping to Drop pod a Librarian dread with fear and blood lance on the Necrons that keep night fighting up all the time either lance the vehicles or fear Immotek inc. off the board. Is lance worth it in this instance or should I just be using another furioso? Also I cannot mount a spotlight on the Libby dread to spotlight a vehicle for my storm ravens to sink blood strikes into so this presents another drawback. After the thread Something Wycked was referring to it is not generally accepted that blood lance ignores or does not ignore a cover save, and you may be saving yourself a headache from rules lawyering with your opponent to just take melta instead… Libronoughts can be effective units , but not in the manner you're suggesting to run them. Podding it in means you effectively isolate it from any support in your army and allow your opponent to focus on destroying it before dealing with the rest of your army. I've run two libronoughts for the past couple of months with my blood angel 1850 army. The Libronoughts are armed with wings of sanguinius and shield of sanguinius , they support your army by providing cover saves with shield , tying up dangerous units and blob units , providing wide hood coverage (excellent against grey knights as you can cover a wide area to stop fortitude powers.) and casting wings to jump up to the mid field with the assault elements of your list. They're not the one man power houses furioso blender dreads can be , but they bring a good deal of flexibility and utility to the blood angel army that a furioso dreadnought never can. Not to mention that they can still be effective without being in assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 the problem is that it only inflicts one hit per unit under the line. so ever if its seveal models they might be in the same unit and so only 1 hit, which sure is an auto hit and therefore more likely to kill something than a melta but it means 1 less power you can cast that turn, wher as you can use the melta and still have another power you can use in the assault phase.. such as sword or rage... This ^ The OP's post almost implies its not like this, with reference to "template" like weapon etc. This power is poor against Paladins on account you only hitting 1 ! Sword would be much more beneficial, because on a charge you'd be looking at 4xS10 attacks rather than 1xS8. I tried BL once in a tourney, and it wasnt bad. It just wasn't great. Was just like having a melta gun, with some bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 The OP's post almost implies its not like this, with reference to "template" like weapon etc. /facepalm Thanks for correcting me, Morticon. I've been reading my GK codex far more than my BA codex. :P So if I'm reading things correctly, the general consensus is that Blood Lance is about as valuable as a meltagun, then? That being the case, taking Blood Lance exacts an opportunity cost against taking one of the other powers, but then you are saved the points of buying a meltagun/IP, which are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 and i think i forgot to mention secondary targets also get a cover save... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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