vanguardwolf Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 hello my brothers to make my fluff fit better i written this what do you think There are 13 space wolf company’s “officially”. But whats unknown is that the 12 now active company’s All have a shadow company. These shadow company’s all have their own purpose. But they are all connected to preserve all that what is important For the chapter. The rumors are that the high lords know the existence of the shadow chapters. But allow them for the time being. Each shadow company has its one setup, and purpose. (feel free to use this for your own fluff and post it here ) greets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 you mean there are actually 24 great companies in your fluff then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguardwolf Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 no just 13 but in secret there are 12 shadow companys who are the shadow of the other 12 mabe it needs more tweeking but thats why i post it here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 what would still mean 25 great companies of which only 13 are official or are these shadow companies not great company sized? offcourse it are your miniatures and you can do whatever you want but this just goes a bit against all space wolves fluff as we know it. perhaps you should explain a bit more what these shadow companies are exactly as i can't really make up my mind why you would want the space wolves to have a secret succesor that isn't really a succesor so to speak? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguardwolf Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 their smal company's, and they are more a covert ops like theme. but its purely for the fluffy players who like me got stuck on the GW fluff. and not just want to change a name greets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 vanguardwolf I like your idea. They're like separate companies that have slowly built up over time that model themselves on the main twelve companies. @hendrik well they could be sneaky about it. Just like some other Power Armour clad Fenrisian Space Warriors that aren't supposed to exist :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Agreed that it goes against the canonical lore of the Space Wolves and with I feel the whole "shrouded in secrecy" thing makes it seem like it's a bit like the Dark Angels "fallen". Except that I get the impression the Shadow Companies are all good guys... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I am fairly confused about this, I am not sure what you mean at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 the thing is we already have a covert op force, the 13th company inside the warp and even they are somewhat a secret despite being a popular army. my point is more, why would we need another company for covert operations? since great companies are already considered to be bigger then a usual space marine company they could easely be part of the normal great company, that now becomes standard company sizes so to speak. given that all wolf lords are rather free to do what they want i see no problem at all to incorporate a secret ops inside our standard great companies. in fact, one could consider our scouts to be the secret ops. perhaps if you fleshed the details out a bit more why they need to be a different great company (no links with the space wolves home chapter perhaps because of traitorous acts? although 1 killed member /captured member would easely link them to us.) i might be able to understand it better :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 i think what he is trying to get at is a sort of Good Alpha legion type smaller Space Wolves companies that operate where the 13th company and the Scouts don't operate. 13th company = eye of terror Scouts = Close to or where the Great wolf commands. That still leaves a huge area of space that we don't have our fangs dug into for vital information. Like in Prospero Burns where Russ openly says that information is key to how we work. Though im not entirely convinced that we need 12 of them ... Maybe just a squad to represent a shadow of each of the Great Companies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Perhaps Space Wolves coming back from Deathwatch wanting something more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I used to run my Wolves something like this, calling them the Shadow Wolves. they were constructed from Wolf units listed as "lost in action", and were used to combat forces the Space Wolves themselves couldnt (high ranking imperial officials, other Marine chapters, yadda yadda yadda) due to political reasons. they recieved orders from the Great Wolf of that time period, and were used several times in Imperial history to right wrongs (after the first Armageddon War, Grimnar built a shadow company to strike back at certain members of the Inquisition and settle debts). WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac the knife Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They could companies or parts of companies that have gone to the 13th stone. As they are now officially off the books they could be in contact with the Great Wolf and very few would actually have knowledge of it. The Great Wolf could probably reach out to these "Lost" Companies from time to time to right a wrong or strike at a foe that the Wolves can't be seen to be working against. ~Good evening gentlemen, your mission whether or not you choose to accept it... (Insert mission briefing) ... If you are caught you will be disavowed. This briefing will self destruct in 10 seconds. *boom* /cue Mission Impossible music. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 its sounding more and more like a company of Dwarf Slayer mentality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 it seems like our brother here basically wants to create a force specialising in Black Ops (Deniable Operations) thus meaning they can strike out any place, any time and even if they are vaguelly linked back to the Fang and the Space Wolves as a whole, only the upper echelons (Lords, Priests and the Great Wolf himself) would know the key information, or plausibly even have any knowledge but ofcourse (as we see with governments universally) they would deny any prior knowledge and decry the warriors as traitors (most likely noting them down as Red Corsairs). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguardwolf Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 it seems like our brother here basically wants to create a force specialising in Black Ops (Deniable Operations) thus meaning they can strike out any place, any time and even if they are vaguelly linked back to the Fang and the Space Wolves as a whole, only the upper echelons (Lords, Priests and the Great Wolf himself) would know the key information, or plausibly even have any knowledge but ofcourse (as we see with governments universally) they would deny any prior knowledge and decry the warriors as traitors (most likely noting them down as Red Corsairs). jep thats what i was intending. see my spearhunters topic. greets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 then why not go the lost company route? these companies are emarked not beloning to the chapter anymore and imperial intelligence will know about this. the biggest problems with the secret ops force are the following: -recruitment: the space wolves won't allow anyone else to recruit from fenris as it will decrease our own numbers of bloodclaws(which we know is already a problem at times (cfr wolf's honour). -getting the recruits from fenris; the inquisition sees everything and i'm sure some of them can't wait for the wolves te be declared heretic, any none space wolves chapter/ship visiting fenris will nog only be spotted by us but most likely aswell by the inquisition. you could always say the space wolves randomly dump some bloodclaws on a planet where they are late rpicked up by your shadow companies though. -transportation in space: space ships are easely detected and usually have seen a variaty of commanders, be they loyalist,traitors and then loyalists again. if a secret ops ship isn't known as loyal chances are rather high any planet will try to blast them to kingdome come. -armoury: each chapter is dependably on mars for a large degree to recieve their power armour etc if i recall correctly. suddently equiping 12 shadow compagnies would be the same as suddently having our chapter almost double in size or atleast rising with 25-50%. the power armour supply as well as bullets, weapons and vehicles etc simply won't be able to keep up. -our DNA, unlike the plentora of ultramarine succesors or the likes research on a fallen member of the company will quickly give away what chapter these men belonged to. my suggestion instead of making 12 companies (reallt hard to stay hidden) would be to have only 1 shadow company and have them work on a pack sized base (10 astartes are easely enough to slay a single opponent that needs to get taken care of) the thing with astartes freedom is that they already are able to do exactly what you want, specifically strike out at any time at any place at their own will. remember the chapters are still in control of themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 then why not go the lost company route? these companies are emarked not beloning to the chapter anymore and imperial intelligence will know about this.the biggest problems with the secret ops force are the following: -recruitment: the space wolves won't allow anyone else to recruit from fenris as it will decrease our own numbers of bloodclaws(which we know is already a problem at times (cfr wolf's honour). if fenris held enough men to supply a Legion, then i fail to see how it would have problems supply a Chapter -getting the recruits from fenris; the inquisition sees everything and i'm sure some of them can't wait for the wolves te be declared heretic, any none space wolves chapter/ship visiting fenris will nog only be spotted by us but most likely aswell by the inquisition. you could always say the space wolves randomly dump some bloodclaws on a planet where they are late rpicked up by your shadow companies though. The Inquisition is hardly all seeing, and not even close to being unified. Some of them might even support such an arrangement. And lets not forget that the DE were able to poach on our recruits, let alone set up a base on a nearby moon. Space is LARGE, and i have no problem seeing a few ships traveling unnoticed -transportation in space: space ships are easely detected and usually have seen a variaty of commanders, be they loyalist,traitors and then loyalists again. if a secret ops ship isn't known as loyal chances are rather high any planet will try to blast them to kingdome come. As long as they hit hard and fast, many planets wont even have the time to organize a defense...if they even have one. Many planets are so podunk it relies on outside forces to patrol its region. Look at what happened to Tanith. -armoury: each chapter is dependably on mars for a large degree to recieve their power armour etc if i recall correctly. suddently equiping 12 shadow compagnies would be the same as suddently having our chapter almost double in size or atleast rising with 25-50%. the power armour supply as well as bullets, weapons and vehicles etc simply won't be able to keep up. Many times Marines are lost and their armor is unable to be replaced. they may be stepped on by a titan, shot by a lascannon or simply lost in the War. supplies are replaceable. (though maybe not 12 companies worth, but a hundred here, 50 there adds up) -our DNA, unlike the plentora of ultramarine succesors or the likes research on a fallen member of the company will quickly give away what chapter these men belonged to. Dont leave any DNA behind then. if the goal is to raid a site, have a standby mesure in play incase you fail. (Like a orbital ship rain death upon the combat zone, erasing the evidence) my suggestion instead of making 12 companies (reallt hard to stay hidden) would be to have only 1 shadow company and have them work on a pack sized base (10 astartes are easely enough to slay a single opponent that needs to get taken care of) the thing with astartes freedom is that they already are able to do exactly what you want, specifically strike out at any time at any place at their own will. remember the chapters are still in control of themselves. Just my 2cents, WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal105 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Dont leave any DNA behind then. if the goal is to raid a site, have a standby mesure in play incase you fail. (Like a orbital ship rain death upon the combat zone, erasing the evidence) that part leaves an even bigger foot print and is even more likely to get you detected because of the mass amount of fire power and energy used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Dont leave any DNA behind then. if the goal is to raid a site, have a standby mesure in play incase you fail. (Like a orbital ship rain death upon the combat zone, erasing the evidence) that part leaves an even bigger foot print and is even more likely to get you detected because of the mass amount of fire power and energy used. this part leaves a even bigger crater behind, and if the ship scaddles after the cheap shot all is well. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Its possible, it doesnt feel like Space Wolves to me... more like Dark Angels, or Raven Gaurd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 well the thing about the fenris could sustain a legion, then why doesnt grimnar make us bigger, or makes eact great company a successor chapter in words, this way the space wolves could have chapter sized great companies once more. we have to remember during that era we still had technology that was understood by a lot or atleast for a great part. in wolf's honour it is mentioned they are even having problems resuplying each great company with fresh bloodclaws the don't leave behind DNA measure seems quite weird, what would require such measures yet draw not more attention. the only reason why we would need this much covering up is if we used it on missions against those still deemed loyal by the imperium and franky, are a job better done by the assasinatorum. the whole idea doesn't scream space wolves to me, not to mention the only way not to be linked to the space wolves on sight would be by using unmarked PA, no totems, etc. and still, why would we need 12 companies to do such a thing? 1 offcial visit of a wolf lord with on board some wolf scouts could easely do the trick. given the wolf scouts their talents i'm sure they can find either a way to get of the planet or even jsut stay there for a couple of months and then get extracted once more Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I would think that instead of the whole stealthy thing, which i agree is not very space wolf like. It would feel more our style if we made a brutal carnage type killing to leave a clear message. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2987915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I would think that instead of the whole stealthy thing, which i agree is not very space wolf like. It would feel more our style if we made a brutal carnage type killing to leave a clear message. Indeed whilst stealth is used, the only forces that uses whole company stealth forces are Raven Guard, Alpha Legion (neither of which are akin to us) and the Officio Assassinorum, I wouldn't suggest outright brutality that's much more World Eater style but a small force, take out the upper echelons of the society - that's us, controlled savagery - leaving a demoralised and metally crushed society but one that get the message of (we only attack those who deserve it, when we do none survive) aka we won't attack civis as they're simply the workforce we like going to the head of the snake, chop it off and hold it up as a trophy to warm others :) sorry if it's a tad long-winded Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246764-the-12-shadow-companies/#findComment-2988239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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