diabloelmo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ok, so I know our bikes are completely overcosted compared to our loyalist counterparts. But should they drop down to about the same points value as other power armour bikes, how would people feel about taking them? I have a sweet conversion idea for a bike squad for my Night Lords (bat wings and trophy spikes!), and was looking for some input into the idea. use them as a fast support assault unit, as tank hunters, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I would say yes, I use them as tankhunters. They are good in CC too, because you reach the enemy quite fast by turbo boosting(3+ save), just give them MoN or if you face marines MoS(higher Initiative, so you strike first). You can in the last turn turbo boost to contest a objective, annoying your opponent as he/she can't count that objective. If you use them right they will earn more points(killing enemy units/vehicles) than their gonna cost you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Unfortunately Sviar, we trade our ccw for special weapons, so the ones with special weapons are pretty crap in cc(compared to other things in the codex)... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As they are now, they're an acceptable way to spam MSUs with 2x special weapons on the table as they compare very evenly to 5x Raptors. In the future, one could only hope that they bring them in line with other biker units, it would be extra nice if they could be potential troop choices as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Unfortunately Sviar, we trade our ccw for special weapons, so the ones with special weapons are pretty crap in cc(compared to other things in the codex)... :unsure: So give them the Khorne Dog Stick to compensate. That will help the Champion's Fist, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think that I have been misunderstood. Reading my old post I can see why. I meant that you either equip them as tankhunters or like a CC unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I've never really seen them as a powerful HtH/assault unit. The combination of high individual price and loss of attacks with special weapons make them too inefficient for my tastes. What they can do is be a useful tarpit, especially against S3 units. Toss a couple of bikers in a squad of IG or equivalent and enjoy the fact that they are only wounding on 6's. Its a niche role in my opinion and something that you could achieve with more flexible units like CSMs or Plague Marines but it is a valid role that utilizes their speed bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I sometimes use them to either act as "tank-seeking-missiles" or, if there is no threatening armor around, to ram them into my opponents maneuver units to slow them down while I rearrange my other troops to deal with the situation. I mostly use them because I like the conversions I did. They're not terribly effective, but can be fun to turbo-boost into the opponent's backfield for harassment purposes. That's what Fast Attack is for, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I mostly use them because I like the conversions I did. That's the sad part. So many things in the codex is so cool but expensive! :( I have a team of bikers I've had since 2nd ed I think, and they are all converted nicely...but I can't find a spot for them in my lists because of their price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloelmo Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've got a plan for a cool unit of Night Lord bikers: get a selection of bat/daemon wings from reaper minis and fit them onto the bikes, either behind the rider or to either side. Add some spikes, chains and skulls... And then I can legitimately play "Bat out of Hell" every time I have a game :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 nay. they cost more for anti tank then termicid . they cant do hth better then csm or zerkers . they are not scoring and cant be made scoring . unlike speeders or attack bikes loyalist have they cant be useful through the whole game and then grab/contest on end game [no long range weapons]. + all the problems bikes have [ problems with tiered buildings , big bases hurt them when hit with templates etc]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 nay. they cost more for anti tank then termicid . they cant do hth better then csm or zerkers . they are not scoring and cant be made scoring . unlike speeders or attack bikes loyalist have they cant be useful through the whole game and then grab/contest on end game [no long range weapons]. + all the problems bikes have [ problems with tiered buildings , big bases hurt them when hit with templates etc]. Jeske...we know... It just gets boring playing the same list over and over again, you got to have some fun as well! :rolleyes: I don't like my models to collect too much dust between my use of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloelmo Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 nay. they cost more for anti tank then termicid . they cant do hth better then csm or zerkers . they are not scoring and cant be made scoring . unlike speeders or attack bikes loyalist have they cant be useful through the whole game and then grab/contest on end game [no long range weapons]. + all the problems bikes have [ problems with tiered buildings , big bases hurt them when hit with templates etc]. I wasn't really asking on how they score in the game of math-hammer, dude. I know they are hideously overcosted and not a particularly optimal choice, I just wanted to know how people would use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 on one of my bikers, I cut off his hand & stuck a bolt pistol hand on there, so it looks like he's holding it "gansta style" I don't really field them much, just when I feel like doing something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've been using a mob of 8 of them for a long time and attached a lord to them with a daemon weapon. It has single-handedly won me many a game, so if the points go down you better believe they'll be included! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I wasn't really asking on how they score in the game of math-hammer, dude. I know they are hideously overcosted and not a particularly optimal choice, I just wanted to know how people would use them. 3 man 2 melta 6-8man 2 melt fistchamp babysitter. Just like every other unit like that since for ever. neither was I math hammering . without the abilty to be scoring bikers are a bad choice of unit , even if their points cost would drop to the points of loyalist bikers. so people would not be using them . there would have to be huge changes to how transports work[like transports deathtraps again like they were in 4th ed and 2ed] and/or the way terrain and taking objectives works . And as non of those changes can actualy be made through a chaos dex[unless GW makes chaos transports easier to kill or exploding harder] people would pick chosen/possessed or termis over bikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'll throw in a yes. I always use a five man bike squad if the points allow it with 2 meltas and a pf. I shoot them up the flank and engage any armour I can find with them. If there's no armour then I engage more expensive units with them. 2 melta shots and 3 rapid fire twin-linked bolters is great for causeing damage! And my pf sergeant almost killed Kor'sarro Khan. (Dratted inv save!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We've had this discussion at my gaming group, and, even amongst Loyalist Marine players, we reach similar conclusions to the jeske: regardless of whether you take them for CC or Tank hunting, there are other units that can do that more effectively, and at a cheaper points cost. I would very much like to see Bikes made more useful - I've got two squads (one 6 w/Meltas, one 4 w/Flamers) that I'd like to get painted, but the fact I don't use them in favour of other stuff means they never see the light of day. I think with the next Codex it would be good if they were given skills such as Hit and Run, Furious Charge, or something else to really set them apart from their loyalist coutnerparts, and make them a unit that's worth taking. Oh, and a 2-4 points drop per model, please... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We've had this discussion at my gaming group, and, even amongst Loyalist Marine players, we reach similar conclusions to the jeske: regardless of whether you take them for CC or Tank hunting, there are other units that can do that more effectively, and at a cheaper points cost. I would very much like to see Bikes made more useful - I've got two squads (one 6 w/Meltas, one 4 w/Flamers) that I'd like to get painted, but the fact I don't use them in favour of other stuff means they never see the light of day. I think with the next Codex it would be good if they were given skills such as Hit and Run, Furious Charge, or something else to really set them apart from their loyalist coutnerparts, and make them a unit that's worth taking. Oh, and a 2-4 points drop per model, please... :lol: Agreed. I've never felt inclined to even buy them, they're just not worth it. If they had even semi-decent rules I would be tempted to convert some bikes but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I've always been a negative nancy about marine bikers. Something about a giant guy in power armor riding an oversized Harley felt somewhat silly to me. It never felt natural, as in something I could imagine them actually using. Jump packs work for me, transports work, speeders and drop pods all good but the bikes just don't do it for me. That and the +1T bonus also seems arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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