kabouri Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hello to all, I was reading for a second time the “First Heretic” and suddenly it hit me ! . When the deamon, shows to the word Bearers the Eldar destruction and the birth of Slaanesh, he told them that the Emperor new that his time was up to reclaim the galaxy and start his Crusade. So my question is, did not find any similar topic, does the Emperor new what will happen to the Eldars and planned the great crusade to effectively take the place of the Eldar ? And did the birth of Slaanesh, gave to the Chaos Gods the opportunity to “ step in” to the real space and thus, through the actions and events of the Imperium, lead to the present “40k” days ? Thank you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If I remember correctly The Lost and the Damned has info pertaining to this. I don't have the book to hand so I might be wrong but I think the Emperor knew about/felt Slaanesh's birth, and that its birth cause the Eye of Terror...I'm sure someone else can confirm this (or more likely correct me). EDIT: I checked. TL&tD page 177. Slaanesh's birth blows away the warp storms, ending Earth's isolation and, in places where the Eldar population was concentrated, the warp came to overlap with the material universe (the most significant being at the Eye of Terror). The next section mentions that the warp storms had cut off Earth from other star systems but had also protected it from the influence of Chaos. It then says "It was, as the New Man knew, only a temporary respite...". `The New Man` being the Emperor, it seems he at least realised that the ceasing of the warp storms was temporary and due to Chaos. It also says that over a hundred years before the birth of Slaanesh, the emperor had started united and establishing his rule over Earth, planning the re-conquest of the galaxy in anticipation of the dispersal of the warp storms... Looks to me like he saw it coming. Whether he knew specifically what happened to the Eldar...that's not mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2987436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I suspect that the birth of did give the dark gods an advantage by creating over laps into real space. The bit that has always interested me about about the fall of the Eldar and the blowing away of the warp storms is at what point this happened in relation to the current history of the Unification Wars (as in the novels). Was it this event that triggered the Emperor's decision to start the unification of mankind knowing that the could now travel to the stars or did he coincide the Unification Wars ending just before the storms were cleared? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2987500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 He might have known about other alien races in the galaxy, just not who they were. And then just an educated guess that the warp storms would begin to recede soon. Then with his massive psychic abilities he guessed or made a connection that the increased warp storms had something to do with the aliens. But the birth of a new god the the downfall of the eldar must have come as a suprise, becuase if he was able to predict what happened to the eldar then why didn't he forsee the primarchs being taken from him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2987510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well, if you take into account that he was able to talk to Magnus who was lightyears away ages before he actually met his cyclopian son, it makes sense that he had at least seen the Eldar at some point. Their fall was horrifically huge in terms of the Warp, and the Emperor's powers are directed from that very place. I don't see why he wouldn't have seen it/felt it in a manner similar to Obi-Wan when Alderaan got nuked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2987580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustermaker Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It kind of makes you wonder if the eldar were trying to keep humanity contained with the warp storms. Sure they could have destroyed pretty much all of humanity if they ever attacked, but they would also have to fight the Emperor. So containment seems more likely. The Emperor is also thought to have dealings with the Dark Gods when making the Primarchs. Perhaps he made a deal to have the warp storms lifted at a time that worked for him. Also Elrad states that he has met the Emperor before, I don't think it says when. This is all just my wild thoughts, but a dude who takes an uber being and sticks it on Mars so a few thousand years later he can have an super smart techno cult do his bidding.... makes you wonder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2988367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It specifically says in the fluff regarding the Great Crusade that the Emperor had long foreseen the birth of Slaanesh and had laid his plans accordingly. This included seeding a tech obsessed society on Mars and the timing of the Unification Wars. The Eldar weren't deliberately creating the warp storms - they were the by-product of Slaanesh's development, becoming more and more severe the closer Slaaneh came to being born. When it was born, the psychic scream blew away the storms - providing the Emperor with the chance to launch the Crusade. And the Emperor certainly would have known all about the Eldar, the Ork and the other common xenos. Remember that the Imperium was not the first galaxy spanning human expansion - humanity had spread across the galaxy during the Dark Age of Technology - when the Emperor still walked amongst humanity undeclared. He knows, or has ready access to, pretty much everything the entire human race knows, and in that period humanity definitely encountered Eldar and Orks. Seems likely he would have had some awareness of the Necrons/C'Tan as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2990225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It specifically says in the fluff regarding the Great Crusade that the Emperor had long foreseen the birth of Slaanesh and had laid his plans accordingly. This included seeding a tech obsessed society on Mars and the timing of the Unification Wars. The Eldar weren't deliberately creating the warp storms - they were the by-product of Slaanesh's development, becoming more and more severe the closer Slaaneh came to being born. When it was born, the psychic scream blew away the storms - providing the Emperor with the chance to launch the Crusade. And the Emperor certainly would have known all about the Eldar, the Ork and the other common xenos. Remember that the Imperium was not the first galaxy spanning human expansion - humanity had spread across the galaxy during the Dark Age of Technology - when the Emperor still walked amongst humanity undeclared. He knows, or has ready access to, pretty much everything the entire human race knows, and in that period humanity definitely encountered Eldar and Orks. Seems likely he would have had some awareness of the Necrons/C'Tan as well. Pretty much this, that and the Eldar had an immense presence in the warp and the Emperor, being all powerful would have felt something through the warp, picture the Emperor as a spider, the warp is the web, and the Eldar are the flies, he knows they are around somewhere through the constant movement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2990630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabouri Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 :) I must admit, although all the replies are very helpfull, the last "spider comment" was pretty explanatory :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2990893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I’ve got two questions linked to this. 1) The Eldar were a galaxy spanning civilisation on the road to decadence and ruin. Their civilisation collapsed at or near the start of the great crusade. So why was there human colonies near the heart of their Empire (such as Cadia?) These colonies would have been set up during the dark age of technology 2) During the great crusade the Emperors Children sacked the civilisation of the Laer, which was corrupted by Slaanesh. How long had they been corrupted by the dark prince? and when did they get one of her daemons bound in a sword? Since such daemons wouldn’t exist/be strong before Slaanesh’s birth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2990917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yeah, the proximity/overlap of the Fall of the Eldar and the Dark Age of Tech, then Great Crusade, has never sat super well with me. In terms of how did humanity manage to establish an empire across most of the galaxy when the Eldar hadn't been near wiped out by Slaanesh's birth - I think the Fall took thousands of years (remembering the Eldar civilization is millions of years old) as the Eldar empire became more and more consumed with hedonism and internal strife. I'd say by the time humanity started colonizing the galaxy, the Eldar were so caught up in the collective suicide of their civilization they weren't able to form any coordinated response, hence humanity had some breathing space. There are a couple of elements of the novel Fulgrim that are potentially difficult - first, the Laer - they could have become corrupted within a hundred years - maybe the surgical changes etc were a pre-existing practice. Second, the Eldar shown there don't act like people who have only recently adapted to life as remnants of people, refugees from a destructed civilization - they act like they've been Craftworld Eldar for ages. Still, the Eldar fluff said the Craftworlds left before the cataclysm, very late in the process of the growth of Slaanesh. That could still be a thousand years or more for Ulthwé bearing in mind the length of the Eldar's civilization. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2991027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistolary Exander Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Slaanesh was born around M31 but you have to take into account that the Warp is pure energy and a place where time has no/ or little meaning there, because of this it is possible that Slaanesh has been interacting within the Warp & the material universe for millions of years before and after its own creation. Therefore Slaanesh could have corrupted the Laer at any point in their evolution before the Emperor's Children fought them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2991065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Or how about the planet was corrupted by another chaos power, or chaos undivided, and it was only after Slannesh's birth that the planet started to favor him (her? It?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2991676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The way I see it is that minor Daemons such as Daemonettes and other types dedicated to Slaanesh began to manifest when the Eldar first began there descent into excess in hedonism, as Slaanesh stirred in the warp gaining strength, so did these new daemons who began to herald the birth of their master, preparing his way so that they can contend with the current three dominate powers. With this theory it is easier to understand how Slaanesh became so dominant in such a short frame of time, remember that the Crusade only lasted around 300 years, and was launched the day Slaanesh was born. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2991741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabouri Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well, Time in the warp indeed flaws in a very different way. A very good example would be the World Bearers send into the Warp by Lorgar ( Angrel Tal I think ? in First Heretic), and for them was a 6 months journey ,when , for the rest of the fleet was like 4 minutes. So it is possible that when we are talking about time and chronology, it is possible that the birth Of slaanesh and all that followed took place in a time where the Imperium already had established their presence in the galaxy. And lets not forget that the time keeping method we use ( years, dates etc) are from the Imperium perspective. PS. I hope my English are good enough to make any sense :yes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246791-did-the-emperor-know-about-the-eldar-destruction/#findComment-2992344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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