Kaldoth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well I was at my local GW yesterday observing a match between Tau and a Word Bearers force. The Chaos marine player entered his shooting phase and lit up some Kroot with a salvo of bolter fire from a squad modeled with bolters. On the Tau player's turn, he charged in the remnants of his Kroot who were subsequently massacred by the Chaos marines due to their standard equipment loadout giving each model an additional attack for a BP/CCW. The Tau player did not realize those weapon options were part of their standard entry and proceeded to throw a hissy fit because "if it were a tournament, that wouldn't be allowed." Now I haven't played in a tournament since the 3.5 dex, so Im wondering how WYSIWYG would come into play with the bolter/BP/CCW standard. On one hand, it seems silly to me that you would be denied use of something that comes standard in a codex entry, but at the same time I've seen some really tight-arsed tournament directors deny people things like digital weapons for not being on the model. How exactly does WYSIWYG come into play with CSM squads? From a modeling perspective, it seems a bit tedious and over the top to expect a player to model everything onto a marine when it comes standard in the equipment entry anyway. Thoughts? Cheers, -Kal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchort Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The bog standard kit comes with the bits you need to represent the equipment of a Chaos Marine. Depending on what you model him with in his hands, you have pistol holsters, knives, and bolters you can easily stick to the model if it's that big of a concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's always been said, even several times in the Rule Book itself, that standard gear not always needs to be modelled. Like Meltabombs, other grenades that come as standard gear, or in the case of Basic Chaos Marines, bolters if they have bolt pistols / ccws modelled, and vice versa. Many on these forums prefer going with a mix of their units, about half having ccws / bolt pistols and the rest bolters to help everyone remember. Myself I prefer going over the top and have them have everything. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't think any of the guys I play with would throw a neck beard fit if everything is not 100% accurate. My opinion is that standard equipment does not need to be shown on the mini. This is in my opinion pretty good since the minis would not look good, would be more difficult to paint etc. When it comes to special wargear and special weapon options the minis MUST have the gear they are said to have on paper. A Bolter does not proxy for a Melta gun or Plasma Gun, and a Chainsword does not proxy for a Power Fist etc. But even here we, the people i play with, make some sacrifice. Say you have a Terminator squad armed with Combi-meltas we don't force the player to have all the models equipped with said weapon. One or two models can have them and that's good enough for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 if it were a tournament and you didnt know that a CSM had a pistol and ccw aswell as a bolter, id question your competancy right of the bat. i know that sounds a little snobbish, but if your going to attend tournaments at least pretend to know a little about the armies youll be facing.. *please note my usage of the word "you" isnt targetting the OP, but an imaginary opponent in the situation described Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIIILegionaire. Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Many on these forums prefer going with a mix of their units, about half having ccws / bolt pistols and the rest bolters to help everyone remember. TDA That's what I do, I simply mix my units with both, I think it looks great on the field and is accurate enough to represent the standard gear. Sounds to me like the Tau play was just being whiney anyway. Edit:typo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Theoretically you can fit everything on the models, I have bolter+pistol+ccw on most of mine just because I felt like it when I made them. Though, as have been said, you don't really need to model all the equipment they come with as standard, they are assumed to have it anyway. Meltaguns and powerfists and such are kinda important to model properly though...in a tournament setting at least, or against someone you've never met before... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 In the BRB it states that you only need to model the upgrades you have given to a squad, not all the basic equipment. While many chaos players do model everything, I've only attached everything to some guys, then modeled others for rule-of-cool.(two gun mojo? check! double chainswords? Why not!) Putting on everything can just make some models look cluttered. Which is why they have the rule, so that you don't have to worry about every little thing, but someone can look at the army and know what everything does, no sneak meltas. Something for that Tau player to learn is asking you're opponent what his units are capable of doing. Not that I would give kroot good odds against even a regular SM tac squad... but if you are going to engage something, make sure you know what it is! I've both called off charges and switched to charging based on what my opponent says he has in his squad. (Deny BA furious charge, yes please. Wait, they have HOW MANY power weapons! Shoot them! for the love of gods, shoot them!)(stupid BA Honor Guard :) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2987729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother RedAxe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Since I don't use them I have been subbing the chaos powerfist as lightning claws, since they all look like shorter versions of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2989189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It's simple really; each model should be a fair representation of what they are suppose to be. Regardless of appearance, a Chaos Marine which is clearly a Chaos Marine is fair game and therefore comes with all the wargear and weapons a Chaos Marine is suppose to have. If you have a special weapon on him then he must resemble a Chaos Marine with said special weapon to be acceptable. Essentially the Tau player was fuming over nothing. If the Chaos Marines all had bolters, just like Grey Hunters, then they are entitled to use all their weapons. After all, my Tactical Marines don't have bolt pistols or Grenades modelled on them either yet they can still use them. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2991958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My regular chaos marines have a mix of weapons, some bolter/ccw, bolter/bp, bp/ccw. I try to avoid just bolter guys (just bolter carrying is a TSon in my army). But no tournament is going to disqualify someone for not having all 3 weapons on each model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2991979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The Tau player doesn't know how to use Kroot and doesn't know what CSMs can do... He is just a bad player. Being a bad player he loses and then being a bad person he has a hissy fit. As others say standard stuff doesn't need to be modelled. Hell I only care that major stuff is modelled. Minor details like melta-bombs, artificer armour or digital weapons... I just want to be informed the model has them at the start of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2992326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I guess what you could do to make him happier than a wet cat is just make photocopies of your list and just pass them out to everyone you play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246798-chaos-marines-and-wysiwyg/#findComment-2992356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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