adamv6 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is a 1000 points event this weekend at the local GW. Space Marines vs Chaos Marines :) (I almost wee'd myself I got that excited) Problem is, I am now facing the eternal dilemma, a few battlefield monsters or a huge swath of storm bolter wielding nutters! I was planning on taking Draigo as my HQ, I hear most of the local CSM players like taking Abaddon, so should be a good battle. For my 1000 points I thought; Draigo ____________ Greyknight Strike Squad (5men) +Psilencer +PsiBolt Ammo ____________ Paladin Squad (5men) +PsiBolt Ammo ____________ Venerable Dreadnought +Assault Cannon +PsiBolt Ammo +LH Missile Launcher ____________ Inquisitor +2 Servo Skulls 2 x DCA Crusader TOTAL - 961 points I am now stuck, whether to take a bunch of warrior acolytes, add another single Paladin and remove psibolt ammo (which I think will be really useful against toughness 4 space marines) or just spread out a few upgrades. What are your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Dump Draigo and get more men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 But then I have to take another 5 man SS, to fulfil the army composition rules :( Draigo allows my Paladins to be standard troops :) Dependant on the game type, I can use grand strategy and make 4 scoring units, or scout deploy my troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 But then I have to take another 5 man SS, to fulfil the army composition rules :( Draigo allows my Paladins to be standard troops :) Dependant on the game type, I can use grand strategy and make 4 scoring units, or scout deploy my troops. Only 3. Henchmen can't be given any Grand Strategy rules. And dropping draigo you can get a GKT squad in there plus a few goodies, but lose grand strategy. You can also drop dread and Inquisitor w/henchmen to make a custom Grand master. Or take draigo, 2 5-man Paladin squads with 2 psycannons each. and have an extra 95 points to play with. Just a thought (your henchmen & Inquisitor comes to mind for this). -edit- Remember, you only need Draigo when you are running PURE Paladin. If you run just one 5 man squad, the points are better off elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankred Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Skip the paladins. My list, on my last tournament: - Brotherhood Champion - 10 Purifier (4 Psibolter) - 5 Purifier (2 Psibolter) - 2x 5 Strikies (1 Psibolter each) - 6 Purgators (4 Psibolter) perhaps there were more Strikeis, but: In small games: take as many Psibolter as possible. They are your best weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 First up, you should take out the various points costs in your list- we don't want GW coming down on B&C like a ton of bricks for posting codex point costs on the forum :( Compare your list to: Coteaz 30 Strikes, 6 Psycannons, 3 Hammers, 3x Psybolts 5 Interceptors, 1 Hammer, 1 Psycannon 1,000 points 36 models on the table to your 13 ;) Moar troops, moar troops. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I only have 10 SS troops and 5 Purifiers painted an ready to go :( Thanks for the advice (I have edited my original post to remove points values) , I can understand most of the comments and they are helpful. Maybe I am trying to achieve a game plan that is unachievable at 1000 points, and should just go with more guns :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Draigo's a waste of points here. Drop him and get more stuff, as everyone else has already said. 1000 points is already difficult enough on GKs because of lack of bodies. Don't exacerbate the problem by taking the most expensive model in the codex. If you are going to do that, then take full advantage of it and skip on everything that's not a Paladin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Have to toss in another vote for not using Draigo at 1000 points; he and Paladins are both a bit too expensive to work at that point value. For a couple other list-building notes, I woiuldn't buy psybolt ammo for a five-man squad; since it's a fixed cost upgrade, you'll get a much better value for your points if you buy it on larger squads. Plus, you're skimping on specials for the Paladins to afford the psybolts; psycannons add a lot more to your list than making stormbolters hit harder. The Psilencer is pretty universally agreed to be a terrible weapon. Not only is it very specialized at killing Daemons, but the Psycannon is actually better at killing most Daemons thanks to higher strength and Rending, and it can still shoot on the move. Plus, the Psycannon can do a lot more than just hurt Daemons. For the Dread, you should swap the missile launcher out for an autocannon. Same range, and the same strength thanks to psybolts, but the autocannon gets two shots to the missile launcher's one. The Inquisitor and his retinue need to be dropped or expanded. A four-model unit without a transport is far too fragile against enemy shooting, and even if they get into close combat they don't have enough models or attacks to do much damage or have any staying power. A DCA/Crusader unit needs enough DCA's to kill the enemy, enough Crusaders to absorb any counter-attack, and a transport to get them to assault range without getting shot at; the humble bolter or lasgun can do plenty of damage to DCA/Crusader mixes by stacking up far too many wounds for the Crusaders to absorb and forcing the DCAs to start taking 5+ saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2987859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Or if you still want Draigo and your dread: Draigo (275) 10-man Strike Squad w/ hammer, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo (250) 5-man Terminator Squad w/ hammer, 4 halberds, psycannon, psybolt ammo (245) Ven Dread w/ assault cannon, missile launcher, psybolt ammo (195) Still leaves 35 points for some upgrades. Alternatively, without Draigo you'd have 310 points for a "lesser" HQ and another unit... perhaps an Inquisitor and fully fleshed out Retinue with Transport. Or lets drop Draigo for a moment... 10-man Strike Squad w/ hammer, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo (250) 5-man Terminator Squad w/ hammer, 4 halberds, psycannon, psybolt ammo (245) Dread w/ 2 TL autocannons, psybolt ammo (135) 5-man Purifier Squad w/hammer, 3 halberds, psycannon, psybolt ammo (161) leaving 209 points for a relatively decent sized Inquisitor and Retinue. Possibly a Transport or two. A lot more units in this variation... A bigger question is are your models already assembled and put together? Do you still have time to convert or arrange them differently? I agree with some of the advice here (such as swapping a missile launcher for a psybolt-ammo TL autocannon) but a lot of it depends on what you have to work with. As a general rule, more boots on the ground is generally better than a few upgrades, depending on what sort of list or theme you're going for. I break this rule a lot myself but I tend to have a little more thematic armies or try to do things like say, have a unit that I am planning on using for Kill Team get the same gear and as many similar upgrades on the 40k tabletop as in Kill Team, such as a few master-crafted weapons or other "point fillers." Highly inefficient, I know, but kind of fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2988364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 For the Dread, you should swap the missile launcher out for an autocannon. Same range, and the same strength thanks to psybolts, but the autocannon gets two shots to the missile launcher's one. I understand the point here, but the Krak Missiles give me AP3 and Frag a template, which could kill more than the 2 units the autocannon could. The Inquisitor and his retinue need to be dropped or expanded Fair point. I was taking the inquisitor and his small warband to get a cheap way of getting servoskulls. I was planning on deploying him near my Ven dread and using the warband to tarpit if anyone charged the dred. I know I could acheive the same by dropping Draigo and taking a GM, but the extra 15 points between a Termie and Paladin give me an extra wound and holocaust. I planned spending points on Psibolt ammo as, fighting toughness 4 enemy, I thought the 3+ wound would be advantageous. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2988951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I understand the point here, but the Krak Missiles give me AP3 and Frag a template, which could kill more than the 2 units the autocannon could. And the Frag template can scatter and miss completely, or it can land dead center on a clustered group of infantry and net you 5+ hits... while the twin-linked autocannons are almost guaranteed to hit with both shots. I personally prefer the solid 2 hits at all times to 0-5+ hits, but obviously its a personal choice :) I planned spending points on Psibolt ammo as, fighting toughness 4 enemy, I thought the 3+ wound would be advantageous. Any thoughts on this? 3+ to wound is advantageous, but Psybolts cost 20 points regardless of unit size. If you put it on 5 models, it costs you 4 points per model (or in the case of your Strikes with a Psilencer, its 5 points per Stormbolter that benefits from it.) If you put it on 10 models, it costs you 2 points per model. Having a full-size squad with psybolts is twice as efficient as a half-size squad with psybolts. Granted, the difference is only 2 points, but Grey Knights need all the points we can get ;) Note that I'm not advising you to take the psybolts off- I'm just throwing numbers at you so you can decide if the 3+ is worth it or not :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Note that I'm not advising you to take the psybolts off- I'm just throwing numbers at you so you can decide if the 3+ is worth it or not ;) When you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different tune. But regardless, when it comes to psybolts my personal opinion on them is when you're 20 points shy, go for it to fill your costs. If that 20 points can go elsewhere for something a little more worth it, then take it instead. I never take them on Paladins, but I would on regular GK Terminators at full strength. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 When you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different tune. All my squads have psybolts, so I never have to sing that tune ;) Then again, all my squads have 10 models... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Even on my ten man paladin squad I don't take it. On a ten man Regular Terminator squad, they will certainly have Psybolts. Give them rerolling 1's and those 700 termagaunts coming at you suddenly don't feel all that threatening. Chances are a whole squad of 30 will get wrecked before they even get close enough to do any damage. My future non-draigowing army will certainly be toting around some good extra strength weaponry. Paladins have a big enough bite, they have little to no need to have a little extra bark. In my opinion anyway. -edit- Also, on the topic of krak missiles, go with the autocannons instead. These are Grey Knights, so opening up power armor is our job. It's just in close combat instead. More chances to open light/medium tanks is what GK need probably more than anything. I'm not a huge fan of psyrifle dreads, but it's the only dread I would take in GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Thanks for the advice guys, and your opinions. They all slant in different directions and are helping me tune my 1000 points greatly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Always be suspicious of people who tell you "THESE are the ONLY things that are good, and every other unit SUCKS so you should NEVER take them." 40k, like the rest of life, is full of shades of grey. Your list is different from my list is different from Twin .44's list is different from... The key is to find a list that fits your play style, that works for you personally, and run with it. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love Drago, and ny only experience of playing with grey knights is using him. Remember that with Draigo, you can take 2 solodins as your minimum troops, and then have a bunch of points (615ish) to spend on what ever else you want. I rarely play at 1000 points but if I did, I would probably bring my Draigo wing, because I love them so :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin .44 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I love Drago, and ny only experience of playing with grey knights is using him. Remember that with Draigo, you can take 2 solodins as your minimum troops, and then have a bunch of points (615ish) to spend on what ever else you want. I rarely play at 1000 points but if I did, I would probably bring my Draigo wing, because I love them so 615 points eh? Challenge accepted! I say 3 storm ravens. One for each model. Watch opponent poo themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Draigo Solodin, hammer Solodin, hammer Solodin, falchions Dk, sword, teleporter, heavy incinerator Dk, heavy incinerator Psyrifle dread 1000 points ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 7 KP @ 1,000 points, and 3 scoring models :D You're crazy, nurglez :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 +d3 scoring units from grand strategy :yes: though it was a list made for fun. I'd probably want to take at least a 5 man squad (mainly because psycannons are so awesome), so Draigo, 5 pallies with 2 psycannons and a solodin is 645 points. draigo and 10 pallies with 4 psycannons costs 905 points, so you could have a 11 man death star, and 1 solodin if you really wanted, though I'm sure some people wouldn't enjoy playing you if you did that... and yes, I am pretty crazy. (That list has more kill points then my draigowing has at 1750 points!) I love pallies (no duh). Just think though, 615 points to spend on killy stuff (after draigo and 2 solodins), gives you quite a bit of killy, and just try and keep the solodins out of the game for as long as possible (either in reserve or hiding). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 Stormravens worth of points, or 2 Stormravens and a Dread... :yes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2989978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadLift Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 1000 pts of GK and it wants to be competative ? Personally I would be looking at purifier spam as opposed to Drago. Crowe 5 Purifiers: 3 halberds, 2 Psycannons, Rhino 5 Purifiers: 3 halberds, 2 Psycannons, Rhino 5 Purifiers: 3 halberds, 2 Psycannons, Rhino Dreadnought: 2 Twinlinked autocannons, Psybolt ammo Dreadnought: 2 Twinlinked autocannons, Psybolt ammo Leaves you 20 plus points to play with I think. Drive forward, pop smoke and next turn start shooting ;) Obviously not what your really looking at but at 1000 pts this lists good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/246803-wargear-or-more-troops/#findComment-2990002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.