Blood Angels novels and fluff!

[gogmagog]

Not wishing to open a can of worms. I have read the Blood Angles novels, and I believe they are Canon as they are Black Library. But the actions described dont appear anywhere in the Codex. So?

[The Crimson Cartel]

Divided camps on that one brother. Some say yes, some say no (Or resounding no.!.) So it's really up to you. That's one of the great parts about our hobby.

 

-CC

[Brother Tancred]

According to GW unless it directly contradicts what is in a codex the BL books are 100% canon no matter how much the fans like (or utterly dislike) them. So in other works the James Swallow books are canon technically, don't shoot the messenger!

[Nachocuban]

as far as I know, Black library books aren't officially cannon, but are a very close 2nd for terms of authority.

[Gv0zD]

I heard it somewhere, that BL novels are not considered as canon. They only provide the authors' opinions and points of views. Also, as they are written from different perspectives, they are more like certain characters' subjective views, not the absolute truth. I personally consider only Index Astartes as canon. I still can not forgive Matt Ward for BA teaming up with Necrons :)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I still can not forgive Matt Ward for BA teaming up with Necrons :)

 

Thats actually one of the cooler pieces in the new codex IMO. I was I admit initially repulsed by the idea but read it again. Dante fights a TIME TRAVELING robot and fights that war to a stand still. How crazy is that? Some nids show up so they both cease open hostilities while they fight bugs instead. When all is said and done neither are in a position to really win so they leave and then it also mentions that the Blood Angels would tend to think fighting someone who helped in a campaign would be distasteful. What I see from that piece of fluff is the following (In order from least to most important):

 

-Blood Angels have a sense of honour when it comes to people that assist in their campaigns.

-Blood Angels are humble enough to show some respect even to Xenos (When they deserve it)

-Neither overwrites their desire to kill the Xenos.

-They know when a Tactical withdraw is required.

-DANTE CAN SUCCESSFULLY FIGHT A TIME TRAVELING ROBOT How many chapters can say their leader can do that? Just us to my knowledge.

 

Edit: And I also heard somewhere that BL novels are just considered like one telling of the story not a definitive. And isnt the whole point of this game to pick what you think is cool? Else why else would be we have Dornian Heresy stuff?

[Dropsik]

-Blood Angels have a sense of honour when it comes to people that assist in their campaigns.

-Blood Angels are humble enough to show some respect even to Xenos (When they deserve it)

-Neither overwrites their desire to kill the Xenos.

-They know when a Tactical withdraw is required.

-DANTE CAN SUCCESSFULLY FIGHT A TIME TRAVELING ROBOT How many chapters can say their leader can do that? Just us to my knowledge.

Before the new Necrons codex I would disagree with you. Necrons were semi - mindless robots with desire to kill everything that stands in their path. Is there anything honourable to fight teamed up with cold killer? It's like defending yourself against homicidal maniac, and suddenly teaming up with him against crazy general with access to nuclear rockets. So, cool, we defeated crazy general, but you still are a homicidal maniac. It also confilcts with Tactical withdraw theory. I mean, in new BA codex Mephiston stands ALONE for many hours against WHOLE Tyranid invasion? Clearly, Lord of Death didn't hear about tactical withdraw.

It changed a bit since the new necron codex was released. Fluff parts about necrons show us now a bit more insight in their motivations. We now know, that they aren't simple minded cold killers, but they have some abitions, some part of self control. Bearing that in mind I would say that now this part in BA codex is not so plain dumb.

 

[Possible SPOILERS]

But back on topic. I've read James Swallow's BA series about 3 or 4 times. There are some cool moment's in them, like Flesh Tearers executing those civilians on Eritaen, or this scene in which Arkio has a vision about returning to chapter and simultaneously Stelee see the changes wrought about Arkio by his chaos gift.

However. The story has so many weak parts, so many terrible parts that I would never wanted it to became anything near canon. Also, so many plot holes - In Deus Encarmine and Sanguinius BA lose how much marines? Two companies? Three? But third book forces us to believe that those 'terrible losses' demand a tribute of neophytes from other chapters. Really? And Baal has such a weak defenses that it can be infiltrated by a clone of Primogenitor with ease. Not that we have Mephiston on board which is arguably one of the most powerful psykers in whole universe (maybe Tigurius is more powerful in psychic force - tapping into Hive Mind would suggest that).

 

And I have also one more issue with Swallows series - creation of characters. Rafen is so irritating I would kick his ass if I could. For a second, compare Rafen to Ramius Stelee. Now we are talking. Ramius is plain badass character. Everything in him just screams that he is so great character. Why o why Swallow didn't create Rafen with just a portion of Stelees coolness? Why didn't he add more about Rafen's struggling with rage? Why didn't he dwelved deeper into his feeling of failure in third and fourth tome forcing him to make more and more drastic decisions? Why didn't he break him apart just to bring him back stronger? No, instead, we have Rafen doubting, Rafen thinking four times just to not hurt anyone with his decisions, Rafen 'miraculously' defeating Lord of Change just after he 'with last reserves of power' defeated Arkio. And, at last, we have Rafen defeating a "clone" of Fabius Bile. Truly, it would be better to face him with a biovore as a "last boss" than insulting reader with this "clone" nonsense.

 

That's my opinion about those books. I'm a bit sad about them, because I see unused potential in them, but instead of choosing nice and interesting options Swallow just drowns in a see of humble behaviour, noble decisions and not hurting anybody too much. Pretty lame in my opinion.

 

cheers!

[Gv0zD]

They had to change Necron fluff to justify that encounter with BA :rolleyes:

Anyway, Bob has a good point: we can choose what parts of fluff to follow. For instance I follow the official fluff closely, but I wanna rewrite fluff for Sanguinor for my BA, as I don't like the official version.

[Morollan]

They had to change Necron fluff to justify that encounter with BA :)

 

I suspect they already knew the direction they were going in with the Necrons when our Codex was written. The Necron codex also makes mention of The Silent King leaving the galaxy after the Necrons went into stasis but then returning in a hurry when he found the Hive Fleets in the void between galaxies. So they have kind of set up the situation where the Necrons are clearly very worried about the Nids.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

So, cool, we defeated crazy general, but you still are a homicidal maniac.

 

A good point but I think there is more then that. If Necrons were just homicidal maniacs they wouldnt have ceased hostilities against the Blood Angels for example. Its perhaps more a matter of respect but these are all concepts that interlink in my mind at least. Loyalty =/= Honour =/= Respect but they are all interlinked.

 

Blood Angels are fiercely Loyal to Mankind as a whole. They have respect for the fighting abilities and methods that Necrons show and this makes them show some form of honour in their engagements. (And just because they have honour doesnt mean they wont stab the necrons in the back just that they will find it distasteful to do so, it's their loyalty to humanity that overrules the desire for proper respectful combat.)

 

It also conflicts with Tactical withdraw theory. I mean, in new BA codex Mephiston stands ALONE for many hours against WHOLE Tyranid invasion? Clearly, Lord of Death didn't hear about tactical withdraw.

 

 

Although they both might be a touch old Mephiston is almost certainly not a commander of Dante's acumen. Mephiston isnt even supposed to be a tactical commander, he is a librarian. I am not hugely surprised that Dante may be the more pragmatic commander of the two. I'd expect the same from any other captain or chapter master except perhaps Tycho, when he is nearing the fall.

 

More importantly Mephiston fights the Tyranid invasion because it is a direct threat to human life. If there is one trait the Blood Angels have it is a compassion for Humanity (something I may add they have lost to become what they are). This is what sets them apart from other Space Marines. The Salamanders may even have a better relationship with humans but Blood Angels care for them much like Sanguinius did (which is why he is the only primarch to have a holiday). I would posit that he fights for those six hours, for every step of ground because he knows that if he fails that a whole hive of humans will die. Interesting isnt it that a man who has lost his humanity twice might so relentlessly strive to save so many humans?

 

Finally although I do so love the sound of my own typing, I would add that one exception doesnt break the pattern. :)

[Dropsik]

If Necrons were just homicidal maniacs they wouldnt have ceased hostilities against the Blood Angels for example. Its perhaps more a matter of respect but these are all concepts that interlink in my mind at least.

that would be perfectly understandable if the necrons were like, eldar or orks. Race with an ability to understand (in case of orks an limited ability, but still), to learn, to acknowledge it's own motivations etc. Necrons weren't any of those things. Previous codex stated they were metal robots driven forward by their everlasting hate for anything that live. HOW could they stop hostilities? The answer is - they couldn't. Only dumb approach by fluff writer could result with ceasing hostilities in that case. I understand your reasoning, by in my opinion we would be trying to put that part in some acceptable light, but in truth we can't, because somebody just made stupid mistake/didn't give it enough thought/etc.

 

Blood Angels are fiercely Loyal to Mankind as a whole. They have respect for the fighting abilities and methods that Necrons show and this makes them show some form of honour in their engagements. (And just because they have honour doesnt mean they wont stab the necrons in the back just that they will find it distasteful to do so, it's their loyalty to humanity that overrules the desire for proper respectful combat.)

That's the point. They don't have respect for them. Or in fact shouldn't have! It's like having respect for a toster that it makes your toasts. Not only Necrons are Xenos, and as such earning distrust/hate from BA's. They are also one of the most terrible dangers that craves the universe. Would BA respect machine, killer machine unable to reason, think, feel? It can't even respect it fighting abilities because it's like a program. Necron Lord say "destroy", necrons destroy.

Although they both might be a touch old Mephiston is almost certainly not a commander of Dante's acumen. Mephiston isnt even supposed to be a tactical commander, he is a librarian. I am not hugely surprised that Dante may be the more pragmatic commander of the two. I'd expect the same from any other captain or chapter master except perhaps Tycho, when he is nearing the fall.

yeah, that's true. Dante is a better commander. Older, wiser, more experienced. But Mephistons stand wasn't anywhere close to smart tactical decision.

My friend had a dog. And he gave that doggy to a dog school, where it would teach it how to react to danger, how to defend he's master etc. But the dog was extremely stupid. One time we waited for a dog teacher to end his execrsise so we could watch how the dogs manage to deal with the tasks that the teacher gave to them. The last one was simple - jump over a small wall. Dog had to jump on small chair, and from the chair make another jump over the wall. Each dog did this without a pause. But my friends dog just hitted the wall with his head. Three times. That dog could be nicknamed mephiston. it's all cool that he's such a badass that he can fight tyranid horde on his own for 6 hours, but if we aply just a portion of reason and logic to such behaviour what do we get? My friends dog.

More importantly Mephiston fights the Tyranid invasion because it is a direct threat to human life. If there is one trait the Blood Angels have it is a compassion for Humanity (something I may add they have lost to become what they are). This is what sets them apart from other Space Marines. The Salamanders may even have a better relationship with humans but Blood Angels care for them much like Sanguinius did (which is why he is the only primarch to have a holiday). I would posit that he fights for those six hours, for every step of ground because he knows that if he fails that a whole hive of humans will die. Interesting isnt it that a man who has lost his humanity twice might so relentlessly strive to save so many humans?

so the best he could do for humanity was to fight alone for 6 hours having his brothers behind his back doing nothing? I don't have my codex with me, but iirc he was defending some powr plant or hydro plant yes? he couldn't withdraw to a little wider place to let his brothers join the fray and thus - do the same more efficiently? Nope, he had to stand alone in a corridor for 6 hours against whole tyranid force. And the tyranids suddenly forgot how to eat, and couldn't destroy the building around mephiston? Or just wide this corridor a little. Or use trygons and raveners to dig their way behind Lord of Death? Impossible :)

 

There is just a limit of bull... you can be faced with and not starting to look funny. I love BA, but I hate what was done to them in recent two codexes. It's the same amount of really dumb stories that were placed in last Ultramarines Codex.

 

Cheers!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

that would be perfectly understandable if the necrons were like, eldar or orks. Race with an ability to understand (in case of orks an limited ability, but still), to learn, to acknowledge it's own motivations etc. Necrons weren't any of those things. Previous codex stated they were metal robots driven forward by their everlasting hate for anything that live. HOW could they stop hostilities? The answer is - they couldn't. Only dumb approach by fluff writer could result with ceasing hostilities in that case. I understand your reasoning, by in my opinion we would be trying to put that part in some acceptable light, but in truth we can't, because somebody just made stupid mistake/didn't give it enough thought/etc.

 

my understanding was that even the old necrons had lords that had some level of understanding and tactics. I could be wrong (and just might be!) but either way it doesnt matter terribly with the new necron book :)

 

 

But Mephistons stand wasn't anywhere close to smart tactical decision.

 

I didnt mean to say that it was smart but it was fueled by an irrational sort of Loyalty to Humanity. I think thats an important facet to the blood angels and the story but they also no how to retreat when they can get away with it.

 

so the best he could do for humanity was to fight alone for 6 hours having his brothers behind his back doing nothing? I don't have my codex with me, but iirc he was defending some powr plant or hydro plant yes?

 

A few quotes for your consideration.

"with Mephiston's Blood Angels stretched to the limit as they rally the planet's defence force against the endless hordes ..."

"Only where Mephiston fights do the forces of humanity hold."

"He holds the ruined entrance to the filtration plant for six hours without aid." (All on pg 17)

 

We know a few things from this description.

1) Hes got limited marines and they are deployed all throughout the city.

2) Hes got normal humans defending as well but they are not the greatest and they are deployed throughout the city.

3) He is in the entry way to the filtration plant.

 

 

So we know that the Nids did infact damage the entry way to the plant. We also can assume that the plant is not on the bottom level of the hive making it basically impossible for nids to burrow up into it.

 

Im not trying to say that its the best piece of fluff ever or anything but it is a hyperbolic way to describe the point of his defense. (We also dont know how constant the attacks were the fighting could have just been a few that sneak through the lines and he fights them at irregular intervals. But thats not as impressive is it?)

 

Either way I say we make the best of what was given to us. There are some real gems in the codex that just need a little thought and polish to really make shine.

[Dropsik]

my understanding was that even the old necrons had lords that had some level of understanding and tactics. I could be wrong (and just might be!) but either way it doesnt matter terribly with the new necron book

they had a very limited access to free will. definitely not big enough to have anything more than ability to decide when to strike and where. I would say that such abstract concepts as honour was far beyond them.

 

but as you said, with new codex that changed a little, so it's not so plain dumb.

 

I didnt mean to say that it was smart but it was fueled by an irrational sort of Loyalty to Humanity. I think thats an important facet to the blood angels and the story but they also no how to retreat when they can get away with it.

thats the thing man, the only possible way mephiston could survive it, if we are talking bearing in mind at least some of the laws still in force in WH40K world, is because the writer desired him to survive. It's the new tendency in fluff writing - face a named character with some terrible enemy, and make him survive no matter the odds. Marneus Calgar fighting Tyranids for THREE (or was it TWO?) days... Mephiston roundez vous with Tyranids... Draigos free run in warp... I mean, thats a lot of stuff, that is so dumb, so unrealistic (even on WH40K standard) that my artistic soul start to rebel.

 

A few quotes for your consideration.

"with Mephiston's Blood Angels stretched to the limit as they rally the planet's defence force against the endless hordes ..."

"Only where Mephiston fights do the forces of humanity hold."

"He holds the ruined entrance to the filtration plant for six hours without aid." (All on pg 17)

 

We know a few things from this description.

1) Hes got limited marines and they are deployed all throughout the city.

2) Hes got normal humans defending as well but they are not the greatest and they are deployed throughout the city.

3) He is in the entry way to the filtration plant.

You are trying to justify something that can't be justified. Ruined entrance doesn't mean nothing - it could be ruined because mephiston looked bad at it, it could be ruined because it was hitted by some krack rocket, it could be ruined because mephiston smashed some carnifex on it. BUT, even if it was targeted by Tyranids can you provide one simple answer - what could stop tyranids from destroying simple entrance? You dig? NOTHING. It was designed to provide a scene for dumb story, so it was made completely impervious to any attack. Just as Mephiston.

 

Either way I say we make the best of what was given to us. There are some real gems in the codex that just need a little thought and polish to really make shine.

yes, you are absolutely right. but I'm looking at that codex and I can't find anything that would make a good story. there's two long stories, about Sanguinor and the second one about Orks. Both were propably written to show BA players how cool Sanguinor and Storm Raven are. Well, I wouldn't mind those subtle advertises if the stories were cool. but I didn't like them. Not even mentioning Astorath, Sanguinor, and new Lemartes entrys... I'm feeling that new codexes are being written in special way - to appeal to younger readers. Stories about super heroes totally ignoring any reality encourages young kids to talk about which chapter is the best and so on. But the older players, guy's who in fact create majority of WH 40 K players are left to try and explain such stupid situations as BA alliance with Necrons.

 

Fortunately, I have my 3rd edition copy of BA codex, and my faith in good fluff is restored each time when I read that Argastes quote from first pages.

 

Cheers!

[OwlandMoonGuy]

Personally, I believe that the BA/Necron vs. Nid fluff represents a, "post-apocalypse" view of fluff. Thereby, if you own a ton of BA models & Necron models you can throw down using Apoc rules vs. all your buddies who play with bugs. Even in the light of the new Cron fluff that event is easily, "revisionist" at best.

 

The problem with BL stories is that they don't claim to conduct an editorial review for content. Therefore, inconsistencies between stories or even the contents of codices are never scrutinized. So, it's hard to consider those stories as canon if the publisher doesn't take the time to define what constitutes canon nor take steps to ensure adherence.

 

Like 40K fluff found in codices, BL fluff evolves over time. I can site official GW publications where Angels Sanguine remove their helmets freely, even in front of people outside the Chapter. Current codex & BL fluffs says otherwise. So who are you going to believe? I'm still not cracking off the helmetless heads from my models because the codex says so.

 

In the end, it's your army and thereby up to you. If you believe that Fabius (or let's just call him Fabulous) Bile, can waltz into a fortress monastery and pilfer cherished artifacts (not too bad of a spoiler there I hope) then by all means! Knock yourself out.

 

That still doesn't save Rafen from being one of the most irritating SM protagonist to-date IMHO.

 

-OMG

[igotsmeakabob!!]

That still doesn't save Rafen from being one of the most irritating SM protagonist to-date IMHO.

But he is... The One.

[SevenExxes]

After reading those books I make up my own fluff.

[Arkangilos]

My only problem with it is that something THAT BIG would have been mentioned in the Dex. I mean, how many companies did they lose? How many ships?

 

The first two books would really be the only ones that conflict. The other ones can be made manageable.

 

 

For example: In the book where the council arrives and then Fabius Bile infiltrates and causes havoc: Change the reason of the council to the calling of aid for the coming war on Baal (the one listed in the codex). That war could have been foreseen.

 

 

With

just the purpose of the council

being changed, and the first two books discarded, the rest of the series would fit well and could be considered canon.

 

But the first two books are too major to be considered canon since it was left out of the dex.

[Gv0zD]

After reading those books I make up my own fluff.

+1

Speaking of ridiculous fluff, do you guys remember the part from Space Hulk about BA losing 950 marines during assault on the tyranid ifested ship? If my memory serves, those events were even mentuioned in the latest Codex...

[Dropsik]

That still doesn't save Rafen from being one of the most irritating SM protagonist to-date IMHO.

 

But he is... The One.

 

[possible spoilers]

Compare Rafen with Loken for example. Loken is somewhat similar character, noble, full of sense of honour and duty, and has his doubts about rest of the chapter. See the similarities? However Loken is likeable - he is confident in his skills, he is inteligent and easy wins the joking contests with torgadon/abadon etc. He also was confronted with some very nice and interesting events - first encounter with chaos, that scene with possessed marine for example. One of the best scenes in whole 40K world in my opinion. Why? Because Loken don't know anything about what he sees and he is somewhat terrified by it (know no fear aside) - but still he obeys his training and kill the deamon.

Now Rafen. Is he a noble character? No doubt. Honour? Checked. Duty? Checked. Inteligent? Perhaps. Does he feel like a Blood Angel? Absolutely not. For me he could be a salamander sergeant, or ultramarines sergeant or even imperial fists sergeant. He didn't show anything that would make him 100% Blood Angel. When he 'rages' it's the same 'feeling' I was faced with in many novels concerning different chapters, just like the one I mentioned. And it is unacceptable - rage is something that differs Blood Angels from other noble marines. I guess that in third book Rafen is musing about Flesh Tearers and say something like "Blood Angels use Rage as a weapon, Flesh Tearers give themselves to it". Now that's bull... Channeling rage should be in my opinion something cataclysmic, you lost yourself in bloodletting etc. And Rafen behaves normally, maybe his hearts pound a bit faster. And if so happens, he is utterly ashamed about that event. He behaves like a girl that had shes first period. 'oh my god! blood! what have I done...' . And you know what pisses me the most? The subtle hints in the series, that Rafen is in fact reincarnation of Sanguinius... If it will be true I'm switching to play Ultramarines.

 

I mean, how many companies did they lose? How many ships?

they lost two ships. the number of lost marines is difficult to count because we don't know how many where with Stelee and Arkio, how many were on that destroyed ship, and how many were lost in battles fought on ground. I think that two companies would be enough. very likely it was much less. BUT we had to gather a conclave to help BA chapter, because it was standing on an edge of dissolution with only 800 marines left.

 

Speaking of ridiculous fluff, do you guys remember the part from Space Hulk about BA losing 950 marines during assault on the tyranid ifested ship? If my memory serves, those events were even mentuioned in the latest Codex...

heh, it couldn't be so bad man, they didn't call for conclave. And yes, that battle was mentioned in codex, that part in Terminator entry about Sin of Damnation. That bit apart, rest of the fluff in Space Hulk was very good in my opinion.

 

cheers!

[Leonaides]

I mean, how many companies did they lose? How many ships?

they lost two ships. the number of lost marines is difficult to count because we don't know how many where with Stelee and Arkio, how many were on that destroyed ship, and how many were lost in battles fought on ground. I think that two companies would be enough. very likely it was much less. BUT we had to gather a conclave to help BA chapter, because it was standing on an edge of dissolution with only 800 marines left.

There may have been c. 800 marines involved -

The company led by Captain Simeon stationed on the grave world at the start (most of whom destroyed - plus scouts), maybe 3 companies worth in the battle-barge which had Arkio and Steele in it, then maybe another companies worth with the Captain who was sent to bring them in first (also likely all killed), then another battle barge (given the expectation of combat against theri brothers I doubt they took less than a full complement) carrying another 3 companies with Mephiston...

 

Then you add in the casualties from the mission Steele led, the casualties form the assault on the Imperial Armoury world and the chaos marines, then fighting against each other, then the ambush by chaos marines again...

 

 

 

You could easily be looking at losses of 500+ marines there.

[Dropsik]

The company led by Captain Simeon stationed on the grave world at the start (most of whom destroyed - plus scouts), maybe 3 companies worth in the battle-barge which had Arkio and Steele in it, then maybe another companies worth with the Captain who was sent to bring them in first (also likely all killed), then another battle barge (given the expectation of combat against theri brothers I doubt they took less than a full complement) carrying another 3 companies with Mephiston...

 

Then you add in the casualties from the mission Steele led, the casualties form the assault on the Imperial Armoury world and the chaos marines, then fighting against each other, then the ambush by chaos marines again...

[spoilers]

 

where did you get the numbers man? I'm pretty sure it wasn't mentioned, but maybe I didn't notice? But if my memory serves me well Stelee's expedition didn't number nowhere near 3 companies. Maybe 1. And not at full size. The had one chaplain, no librarian, one techmarine, one sanguinary priest. Definitely not 3 companies? but maybe it was told somewhere and I missed it? But if my estimations are correct we are looking at 1 company, from which there was some survivors, Turcio for example. So, I would say about 90% of company dead. I would also say that about half company was destroyed on that first planet, can't recall it name. Add to that about at maximum one company dead with that destroyed ship that was carrying mephistons proxy (but it would be very likely that it wasn't full company - rather small contingent of marines, two or three tacticals, maybe some honour guard). And add some loses on Sabien, but as I remember, there wasn't much blood spilt from either Rage issue (Rafen stopped it almost immediately, and raged marines were also killing mostly traitors), or Arkio/Word Bearers forces due to Blood Angel supreme fight capabilities. But lets assume, that it was about half of a company. So, in my estimations, at worst, we are looking at 3 destoyed companies, propably only two. But I would have to read whole story one more time only to search for numbers to prove it, and I'm not really ready to read it again :sweat:

 

cheers!

 

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Yeah, those numbers seem like they were pulled out of the dark recesses of the Warp...

[Dropsik]

Alright, I've already started re - reading first two books, and I'm in about half of Deus Encarmine. Give me one or two day's and I will have the numbers ;)

 

cheers!

[gogmagog]

I find it difficult to believe that the author of the Garro et al stories is the same person who did the Blood Angel ones. In truth I really struggled with them!

[Crimson Devil]

I find it difficult to believe that the author of the Garro et al stories is the same person who did the Blood Angel ones. In truth I really struggled with them!

 

It really is a matter of expectations. The Blood Angels have been around a long time now and many have developed strong opinions on them. Look at the long threads about whether BAs have fangs or are vampires. Regardless of how well researched or written these books could have been, there would still be plenty of people on this board upset with the books because they don't represent what they think they know about the BAs. Some of these same folks have even said if the story was about a different chapter they would have liked them.

 

Garro was a new character with no baggage.