thunderfire Uses

[jerryrich]

OK, I broke. I was originally a Chaos Marine warlord. I am getting tired of fighting an uphill battle and want more variety in my army. With that being said ive decided to rebuild using my models and the Codex: Space Marines. This leads me to building an army that is just one step away from being a chaos army in the way it looks (good for me as I have a hodge-podge collection of that has no real focus, all it will take some a repaint to get it to look good together) but plays like a more competative army. With that being said i really like the idea of using thunderfire cannons (i can picture them as a dark mechanicus cannon and tech marine). Now, what kinds of units best support the use of these cool toys and what nifty tricks have you played with this unit?

 

any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Something Wycked]

Lets see if I remember the numbers accurately... S6 AP4 wounds are fantastic against GEQ. S5 AP5 ignoring cover is fantastic against those pesky GEQ sniper types who improve their cover saves. S4 AP6 inflicting Difficult Terrain has a ton of uses. You can target a vehicle with it to try and immobilize it, if it moves the next turn, or try and get its owner to not move it out of fear of making it immobilized. You can slow down that running unit that's trying to close the distance and assault you.

 

Thunderfires are fantastic for the tactical options they present you :)

 

As far as support goes, you'll need a counter attack unit of some kind (Assault Marines, Vangaurd, Command Squad, Honor Guard) in case something sharp and pointy makes its way near the Thunderfire. Other fire support units that are good at anti-tank are complementary to the Thunderfire, as it really isn't very good at killing vehicles that have better than AV10.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

First off, Wycked, you got the AP values wrong. It's 5/6/- for Surface, Air, and Subterranean rounds. However, your points are still valid.

 

As for units that work well with it, Wycked also made a good point on the anti-tank commentary. Imagine a unit bailing out of a Wrecked or Destroyed APC. They're all bunched up, perfect for template drops. For this, the Thunderfire is a better bet than a Vindicator since one bad scatter isn't going to bone up your plans. As a personal example, I used a cannon one game that in one turn of shooting killed an entire squad of Thousand Sons. Its hard to keep ten Marines alive when they have to take nearly thirty saves.

 

I am not, however, a fan of keeping a counter-assault unit near them to handle attackers. It is so much easier to kill a Thunderfire from shooting than it is to get close enough to one to assault it. It's an AV10 vehicle destroyed by ANY glancing or penetrating hit, so bolters can plink it once and it's gone. Those assault units are better served up front, pressing the enemy.

 

On that note, if you do use one, bear in mind how easily they go away. Don't get attached to it, and don't build any part of your strategy around it. If no one in your normal play ground uses one on anything approaching a regular basis, you'll get lots of mileage out of it before it starts becoming a priority target. My group, for example, is used to mine by now and most of them take every measure to at least kill the gun Turn 1 or 2, before it can do too much damage. And here's another reason. A base-model, Elite-slot Techmarine with no extra gear except for the full harness is 75 points. This means that the cannon itself is only 25 points -- one Hell of a bargain.

 

One last point. Never underestimate the utility of the Subterranean rounds. They're only S4, sure, but you don't rely on putting wounds on stuff with Sub-T rounds. All you need is the hit. Any unit that is hit by one of these -- and remember, they're blast templates, so you can hit multiple units with a single template if you're lucky and/or good -- moves as if in Difficult Terrain. For vehicles, that means they can be immobilized without the need for a penetration roll. For bikes and jump infantry, if they want to utilize the speed that makes them so dangerous, they have to make Dangerous Terrain tests when they move. I've used this to plant Rhinos on Turn One, kill off Nob Bikers with ease, and even turned half of a Blood Angels DOA army into a foot-slogging force in a tournament once.

[greatcrusade08]

i run two, and i find that although as pointed out they are fragile, thier offensive abiltiies are awesome.

like Deus above i like to pop transports and use the S6 rounds on bunched up marines, i even used them on terminators before now, using combat tactics to run away from them leaving them bunched up.. the t-fire shot them and all 5 termies dissapeared in a puff of smoke.

 

the ignores cover rounds i uise as standard against S3 opponents, gives me a break if i scatter onto my own T4 troops, but also means there are no arguments about whether a unit gets a save, it just doesnt :yes:, its also pretty good against orks and tyranids whos large squads usually always claim cover saves.

 

the benefits to taking a t-fire are the bolster ruins rule, and the fact that its a 2 model unit with an infantry and artillery piece..

what does that mean?

it means that only one model need be in cover for the both to claim a cover save themselves, and since on of those models is infantry he only needs to stand ankle high in long grass to be elligable for that save.. pretty nifty.

also since the artillery piece can be placed outside cover (with the techy in cover) you remove the need for those pesky dangerous terrain tests that can destroy your t-fire.

 

at 60" range i find they work well in spearhead scenarios, its posible with flank placement during standard games to be out of range of most weapons (48") yet be in range of your own.. with two i find i can create lines of fire from each flank, yet use hard cover to deny most return firing

[Brother Captain Josef]

Deus. You took the words right out of my mouth; that is exactly everything I was going to say about the utility of the Thunderfire Cannon, word for word.

 

In terms of unit synergy I will also echo you in having a counter charge unit sounds good but is not necessary. I have gotten a great deal of mileage out of setting it up with a Devastator squad in cover (ruins) though. The Techmarine proffers a +1 to the cover save of both units (3+) and goes a long way to increasing their survivability. Telioned Scouts also synergise well with the :yes: - off cannon of uberbadassery and although their overall damage output is less than a devastator squad they do get a 2+ cover save although this firebase does suffer from not being able to destroy vehicles so have the ubiquitous fast melta kicking around in your FA slot.

 

OP, I'm really liking the overall idea of using the SM Codex to represent a renegade/ newly traitor force. Lots and lots of opportunity to create a back story for your force. Best of luck with it matey!

[DarkGuard]

Deus Ex may not remember this post a while ago, but I do, posted a similar thread asking about Thunderfire Cannons. It's a very comprehensive Tactica of the unit which formed the basis of the TFC entry in C:SM, here's the link for you to enjoy :).

[greatcrusade08]

that topic got pretty heated IIRC

 

id add that im still using my t-fires and have done so leading on for four years now.. and they still kick butt

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Deus Ex may not remember this post a while ago, but I do, posted a similar thread asking about Thunderfire Cannons. It's a very comprehensive Tactica of the unit which formed the basis of the TFC entry in C:SM, here's the link for you to enjoy ;).

 

Of course I remember that. I just figured I'd give him a down and dirty.

[DarkGuard]

@GC08: that topic more or less flew right over my head, I'm definitely in the pro-TFC camp, I just want a plastic or at least resin model before I spend about £30 on one.

 

@Deus EX: fair enough, figured you shouldn't have, the OP can now have author's commentary as well :).

[jerryrich]

Hey thanks guys, the threads are great help. I think i will give em a try. along with my uncompetative mostly footslogging marine horde (not "optimal", but makes my oponents melta silly. LOL)