Morollan Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Was just perusing another forum when someone mentioned that you could use a skimmer as cover for your troops but that for some reason when your troops fire back their targets don't get a cover save. The exact situation as described was: Disembark the warrior unit between the objective and the Ghost ark and the objective, as a skimmer the warrior unit can shoot under it, but you get a cover save when the opponent shoots you and with AV13 all round thanks to quantum shielding it lasts a while! Nobody seems to be able to tell me though why the opponent doesn't get a cover save but you do. I therefore thought that I'd ask over here as there seem to be some more rules-oriented guys on this forum. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Not sure it actually works this way, but I suspect he's pinning his hopes on the RAW of shooting "through" an enemy unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 But surely it doesn't matter if it is an enemy unit or a friendly unit. I will provide cover for your target if it is between you and the target. I don't have the BRB here, but I'm reasonably sure that it's only the unit itself that can never get in it's own way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yea I understand where you are coming from Morollan. I was wondering it too. (I am Hidden Lord too) I could give them a cover save if I wanted a cover save and if I say that he doesn't get a cover save I shouldn't either. Just being fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yea I understand where you are coming from Morollan. I was wondering it too. (I am Hidden Lord too) I could give them a cover save if I wanted a cover save and if I say that he doesn't get a cover save I shouldn't either. Just being fair. I'm glad I'm not alone. The fact that nobody on that forum is able to provide rules to back their position and just rely on "It's an accepted tournament tactic" doesn't give me high hopes that I'm going to get anything sensible out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Here's what I know. Models in the same unit do not grant a cover save either way- if you have a Bolter Marine standing in front of the Missile Launcher, the ML's target does not get a cover save. Similarly, the ML does not get a cover save against enemy shooting from the Bolter Marine standing in the way. Models in other units, however, do grant cover saves- both ways, regardless of who controls those in-the-way models. If you and I have squads that are 50% concealed to each other because one of us has a Rhino in the way, both squads get cover when shooting each other. Here's what I don't know. I seem to remember skimmers having a special mention when it comes to granting cover since, based on True Line of Sight, there's nothing but a clear flying base in the way, but I don't remember specifically what that special mention was. My gut feeling is their "accepted tournament tactic" is allowed in local tourneys, not nationals... As in, they cleared it with a local TO who doesn't have an iron grip on the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I seem to remember skimmers having a special mention when it comes to granting cover since, based on True Line of Sight, there's nothing but a clear flying base in the way, but I don't remember specifically what that special mention was. I can totally accept that but would you not expect it to work both ways? Either both units get cover saves or neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes, absolutely. Either it grants cover or it doesn't- everything in 40k works that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 LOL I asked how it gets past the Intervening Models rules on pg21. This was the reply: *shrugs*I don't know how it is. [Although it makes sense when you think about it]. GW just says it is. As for the 21 thing...No idea. Then again, GW have never made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Epic failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Really unless we see something in the FAQ I will never try it myself. Its like saying that I can shot through a rhino because they just say to open the side doors when I shot and then they close them when the other player shots back. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 transports are seperate units, if it blocks LOS for shooting in one direction then it does so for shooting in the opposite direcdtion too. these guys have been smoking the sticky green IMO, they need re-educating.. this as however a valid 4th ed tactic IIRC, tau used it alot.. the skimmer would float to the ground at the end of the players turn and block LO/give cover to the unit behind after they had shot. or something like that anyway. bottom line, if they cant validate thier tactics/rules with actual quoatable sections of the BRB then they cant use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think only Tau can do this because they have a upgrade for the vehicles called Landing Gear. Can remember the rules off the top of my head but I think it makes it where they can land skimmers during their turn so it will not get wrecked from getting immoblized or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think only Tau can do this because they have a upgrade for the vehicles called Landing Gear. Can remember the rules off the top of my head but I think it makes it where they can land skimmers during their turn so it will not get wrecked from getting immoblized or something. They must declare they use that piece if they dont and they get immobilized they crash down like any other skimmer. Eldar have something called Vectored engines that dont require you to declare its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, that was a 4th ed. rule. Skimmers had several changes with 5th ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Most skimmers are low to the ground. Regardless, shooting a unit behind the skimmer will grant that unit a cover save as long as 50% of the models are behind it. If that unit is doing the shooting, only those models that can trace LOS past the skimmer could fire AND the target itself would get cover if 50% or more of the models are out of LOS of the firing unit. I would not treat a skimmer any different than any other vehicle. Fliers on the provided tall stands would be different. For fliers, the stand provides no cover to units beyond. I'd watch for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 normaly you can only pull off "Gives me cover but not you" with low terain (so you can fire over it without issue but it obscures the legs/feet of your models) or by not fireing all the weapons in your unit (for example if a unit of 6 models has 3 models in area terain, and 3 out of area terain with clear site to the enemy, by not fireing with one of the models in area terrain you have 3 fireing models with clear site and 2 without, giving a majority clear and granting no cover save to the enemy, but as three of your models are in terrain you will get a cover saved against the enemy as half or more of your unit is obscured). I find it hard to envision how to use a peice of floating cover (aka the skimer) to provide such a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 true line of sight means just that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't forget the rule for shooting at infantry through a certain distance of area terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't forget the rule for shooting at infantry through a certain distance of area terrain. Wasn't that 4th ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't forget the rule for shooting at infantry through a certain distance of area terrain. Wasn't that 4th ed? Nope its still there, though an often ignored rule in games I've seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorta, the old rules were worded that way. In 5th Ed. shooting though any elements of terrain (and troops) grant a cover save. The first 2" of cover the firing model is shooting though and they are in, does not grant a save to the target on it's own. So even if two units are in area terrain and within 2" they would still have a cover save. Not from the shooting unit firing though less than 2", but being in area cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Don't forget the rule for shooting at infantry through a certain distance of area terrain. Wasn't that 4th ed? Nope its still there, though an often ignored rule in games I've seen I thought that was 4th ed as well... Which page is that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 BRB pg. 22 exceptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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