Primarchs and Legions

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My two favorites have been and always will be the X and XX.

 

The X Legion is notable for its audacity, strength, and directness; of the nine loyal Primarchs, Ferrus Manus was chosen by Dorn, the Emperor's Praetorian and the steward of Holy Terra itself, to command the counter-attack at Istvaan. According to Know No Fear, he was also one of Guilliman's closest friends amongst the brotherhood and one of the dauntless few he wanted to have at his side no matter what. Given their close relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus and Ferrus' apparent friendship and respect with many of the Primarchs -- most notably Dorn, Guilliman, and Fulgrim (though implication and common sense also suggest other tribal-based brothers like Russ and the Khan, and other technically-minded ones like Perturabo and Vulkan might also be considered good friends) -- it always seemed to me that Ferrus was one of the lynchpin Primarchs of the early Imperium.

 

In direct opposition to the Tenth is the Twentieth. The youngest, the least respected, the Alpha Legion always strove to prove that they were the equals of their elder brothers. They found their niche as the stealthiest Legion, with the best planning, infiltration, and intrusion doctrines in the entirety of the Imperium. More than mere social chameleons, the Alphas recognized that sometimes, brute force simply isn't enough. . . and that some secrets deserve to be kept.

[warpedphonecian]

Favorite Legion & Primarch: Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children

 

Why: The EC are unique in having to start with a shortage in manpower, so I guess I came to appreciate the drama of Fulgrim's story in falling from grace as a man who rebuilt his legion and only wanted to be the very best man could be... the last sentence of Fulgrim really embodies this, something about the last phoenix forever left in darkness... He wanted to be the embodiment of mankind's bright future. A bit of a tangent but when I think of the best strategists among the primarchs, that is to say, the most analytic and precise, I think of Fulgrim and Guillman. Both are practical, and while Fulgrim lends himself to some excesses in vanity, I think he's an interesting character as he has the balls to try to embody the impossible ideal of 'achieved perfection.'

 

...also, i like the irony of the EC's rallying call post-betrayal. "Children of the Emperor! Death to his foes!" (though they are arguably the scariest of the CSM because of their complete disregard for... everything... it's a good thing they've fragmented into small warbands)

[Aegnor]

The portrayal of the Ultramarines and Guilliman in 'Know No Fear' pushed them up near the top with me.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

the last sentence of Fulgrim really embodies this, something about the last phoenix forever left in darkness... He wanted to be the embodiment of mankind's bright future. A bit of a tangent but when I think of the best strategists among the primarchs, that is to say, the most analytic and precise, I think of Fulgrim and Guillman. Both are practical, and while Fulgrim lends himself to some excesses in vanity, I think he's an interesting character as he has the balls to try to embody the impossible ideal of 'achieved perfection.'

 

Just thought, could it be rather then some kind of warp ghost of Sanguinius, the Sanguinor is rather either Fulgrim escaped from his own body, or perhaps some kind of psychic construct by which Fulgrim is desperately tries to undo what has happened, possibly protecting the Blood angels as some kind of perceived pennence for aiding Horus and thus indirectly helping the events that cursed them.

[Tezzy]

Primarch: Magnus the Red. He's just awesome. The A Thousand Sons novel really did this character justice and even amongst the other Primarch's he's like a 30K Dr. Manhattan.

 

Legion: Space Wolves . Same justification. Unfortunately we didn't see nearly as much of Leman Russ in Prospero Burns but we did get to see a re-invention of the Rout. Out with the silly Viking stuff of the previous fluff and in with a newer, darker, more serious tone to the Wolves. A feral Legion of unrelenting predators, sanctioned by decree of the Allfather as a means to either bring another Legion to heel or bring one down by the throat. I know there's an awful lot of people who don't like the Wolves being Astartes killers yarn but there's enough suggestion there to safely assume it's true. Either way, Abnett and then Wraight have made the Wolves really cool.

 

Such a difficult thread though. I also really like Night Haunter and the Night Lords, Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children, of course Leman Russ and the Thousand Sons. Post-Eye Word Bearers are pretty good too. Hopefully upcoming books will finally put the Blood Angels with Sanguinius and Angron with the World Eaters up front and centre too.

[MordentHex]

Primarch: Angron

Reason: The guy was/is hell on wheels, He basically told the Emperor "no" i wont go with you. That takes balls. 1st Armageddon war. nuff said.

Legion: Worldeaters

Reason: The where the "hounds" that the emperor let slip when he needed something absolutely crushed. They backed down from nothing and where willing to go farther than any other legion to get the job done. 1st to fight there way into the breaches of the imperial palace. Now everyone knows if a Worldeater is charging towards you its going to be a very bad and most likely violently short day. I loved there armor way back from 2nd edition. Red and brass, swinging massive axes and the stylized helmets. Plus on those really bad days who cant say they wouldn't like to have a chainaxe (this is why i no longer drive "road Rage")

[Captain Idaho]

Know No Fear made me love Guilliman all the more, plus the Ultras too.

 

They are the consumate proffessionals who aim to fulfill the long game for the good guys (or humanity, depending on your point of view!).

[deepsix81]

Primarch: Magnus - His fall from the Emperor's side was (to my eyes) the most heartbreaking, one of few moments that I felt genuine, powerful emotion while reading this series. Having his intellect alongside the Emperor would have been both fun and enlightening. Also, just the idea of intellectual curiosity in a time of war is awesome.

 

Legion: Raven Guard - Love the 'Attack, regroup, attack again' mantra. The stealth aspect and only targeting strategically important installations.

[amaze07]

Primarch-Rogal Dorn (love his Golden armour and the way he looks in the primarchs cover) and Sanguinius looks awesome when he's not being portrayed as

a little bit girlie looking!!!

 

Legion - Raven Guard aswell for there stealth and special ops tactics and the Blood angels,

[Barundin Thunderhammer]

I Have two favourites..is that allowed?!

 

First Primarch: Corax

Why: Have always loved the Raven guard chapter fluff and ideals ever since the early Index Astartes article in WD. And now the Heresy series is in full flow, the glimpses I've had of Corax have made him probably my favourite Primarch.

 

Second Primarch: Leman Russ

Why: Theres something about his directness, yet desire to do whats right no matter the task handed to him, that makes this guy likeable. Plus I love the Viking mythology so this plays to that.

 

First Legion: Raven Guard

Why: As i said before I have loved all the fluff I have read about this legion and then the chapter. I love their style of play, using assault squads and scouts in tandem. Plus Black is easy to paint!

 

Second Legion: Space Wolves

Why: Basically Vikings in space. beer drinking, fighting machines yet with probably the purest ideals of all the legions IMO. The models are also very very good.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Know No Fear made me love Guilliman all the more, plus the Ultras too.

 

They are the consumate proffessionals who aim to fulfill the long game for the good guys (or humanity, depending on your point of view!).

I've only just now gotten to 00.00.00 Mark Of Calth, but yea....

 

Guilliman and the Ultramarines are just made of pure hyperconcentrated doingitrightness. :)

 

 

Nice when they finally get around to publishing the book that proves I've had it right all along :o

[Legatus]

Guilliman and the Ultramarines are just made of pure hyperconcentrated doingitrightness. yes.gif

Like working tirelessly to increase the borders of his own Ultramar all throughout the Great Crusade, as opposed to Ultramar simply consisting of the eight systems Guilliman had united before the Emperor had found him. :D

[Gree]

Nice when they finally get around to publishing the book that proves I've had it right all along :)

 

I don't recall you ever advocating that Guilliman spent much of the Great Crusade empire building for his own personal fief instead of humbly serving like Rogal Dorn or Ferrus Mannus?

[Billuriye]

He played to his strengths, establishing a strong foothold in the galaxy. What's wrong with that ?

[Gree]

He played to his strengths, establishing a strong foothold in the galaxy. What's wrong with that ?

 

He was created to be a general conquering worlds for the Emperor. Those worlds he conquered should have been placed under Imperial control just like every other Primarch did. There should have been no reason for him to increase his personal fief. Even if it was done with the best of intentions it looks like underhanded Empire building.

 

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

[Captain Idaho]

He played to his strengths, establishing a strong foothold in the galaxy. What's wrong with that ?

 

He was created to be a general conquering worlds for the Emperor. Those worlds he conquered should have been placed under Imperial control just like every other Primarch did. There should have been no reason for him to increase his personal fief. Even if it was done with the best of intentions it looks like underhanded Empire building.

 

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

 

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. :lol:

 

You know, building Ultramar and fighting the Crusade aren't mutually exclusive and can be done alongside each other too.

 

Ultramar hasn't even been defined in the Heresy era! Is it even the same as the Ultramar of modern times?

 

When the reforms of the Imperium and Space Marines occurred, it's looking likely the Ultramarines made a serious concession in comprimise to the other Chapters - 500 worlds to 8 (9)!

 

I've said it before; you shouldn't read the Heresy series and make assumptions and judgements based upon knowledge of the current 4oK universe, read the series as if you have know idea what's going to happen. You'll enjoy it a lot more.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Favourite Primarch: Warmaster Horus, I cant really put it into a proper explanation, but hes the one primarch who I wanted to badly not to turn traitor, but still be willing to support him without question even tho he did.

 

Favourite Legion: Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus. I used to collect these, but decided to change to a different legion (mainly cause i change my mind daily) but most likely due to the fact that I couldn't see myself doing the elite justice on the tabletop. I always imagined the Sons of Horus as being the elite legion of the heresy, the chosen and such, wherever they appeared you were screwed etc.

 

Only dislike, not getting to hear what the bear joke was that torgaddon supposedly loved and everyone else hated :lol:

[Legatus]

To not drift too far off topic: My favourite Primarch and Legion are of course Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines. I originally started with Ultramarines in 2nd Edition because I had previously had a small glimpse into the 40K universe through the "Space Crusade" Boardgame, and from that I remembered blue Marines, red Marines and yellow Marines. The blue Marines had their own Codex book in 2nd Edition, while the red Marines shared a Codex with some green Marines. From casual inspection it was easy to see that the blue ones were the straight up "hero" Marines, while the red ones had a darker streak to them. (Which is also cool in it's onw right, of course, but I just wanted the "heroic" Imperial Space Mairnes for my first Chapter.)

 

I like the roman visual theme, which of course exosts in most Imperial Chapters to some extent (with the eagles, laurels, and banners). I like that they are very accomplished, as was their Primarch during the Great Crusade. And I like the devotion to tried and tested wisdom and to a Code of honour and warfare.

 

 

Now to another point:

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. :lol:

I found a few, here, here, and here. But they are not easy to dig up, so there is bound to be more. (These also only date back to 2010.) I would like to think that my perceptions of the negative reputation Guilliman and the Ultramarines sometimes get is based on my years of debunking such accusations on this very forum, and are not simply the result of paranoia.

[The Emperor's Champion]

He played to his strengths, establishing a strong foothold in the galaxy. What's wrong with that ?

 

He was created to be a general conquering worlds for the Emperor. Those worlds he conquered should have been placed under Imperial control just like every other Primarch did. There should have been no reason for him to increase his personal fief. Even if it was done with the best of intentions it looks like underhanded Empire building.

 

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

 

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. :lol:

Seriously...

 

Ultramar is the most civilized entity in the entire galaxy. The Emperor very happily let Guilliman keep what he had built before they had met. What kind of moronic logic would have the Ultramarines go "Oh, we're a force designed for conquering the hell out of this untamed galaxy, the part that we've conquered thus far is doing better than anywhere else, and the boss thinks it's fantastic. CLEARLY we should stop doing what we're doing and by no means dare to add on to our magnificent feat of "doing exactly what the the whole point is, but better than they expected it could be done".

 

You know, building Ultramar and fighting the Crusade aren't mutually exclusive and can be done alongside each other too.

 

It's VERY clear that Ultramar got to be as huge as it was without the Ultramarines doing all the work. There's no reason at all to think any hugely significant portion of the Legion was dedicated to expanding it. The ONLY reason the entire Legion is present at the Battle Of Calth is because the whole thing was a trap by Horus to get the entire Ultramarines Legion and leave them trapped on the far side of the galaxy from where he would be waging the Siege Of Terra.

 

Even IF the Ultramarines Legion managed to conquer all 500 of those planets in the Great Crusade (which they clearly didn't), that's only 500 planets. The Ultramarines conquered more planets than any other Legion during the Great Crusade. Assuming the Astartes Legions conquered half of the million worlds claimed in the Great Crusade, that means the Ultramarines conquered over 50,000 planets.

 

Ultramar hasn't even been defined in the Heresy era! Is it even the same as the Ultramar of modern times?

 

When the reforms of the Imperium and Space Marines occurred, it's looking likely the Ultramarines made a serious concession in comprimise to the other Chapters - 500 worlds to 8 (9)!

I think it's very likely that this IS the same as the Ultramar of modern times. Ultramar has only ever erroneously been called 8(9) planets. It has always actually been 8(9) "planetary systems". You can take this as the first clarification of what those planetary systems actually are. CLEARLY, the commonly named 8 or 9 worlds of Ultramar are simply the capital worlds, and the rest of the 500ish worlds are all divided up between them as fiefdoms. I thought that was very obviously what was being explained in this book.

In face, it finally makes sense out of something that always bugged me - why say Ultramar consists of 8(9) "planetary systems" not "star systems". Well, here's my answer. This has nothing to do with 8(9) systems of planets orbiting a sun, and everything to do with 8(9) fiefdoms of worlds under the governance of those 8(9) commonly named world of Ultramar.

 

All this seems very obvious to me, and it makes perfect sense.

Not really sure why these two guys keep getting their panties in a knot about it....

 

I've said it before; you shouldn't read the Heresy series and make assumptions and judgements based upon knowledge of the current 4oK universe, read the series as if you have know idea what's going to happen. You'll enjoy it a lot more.

Also, this.

I mean REALLY, how many times do people have to have A D-B(or someone equally sage) say something like "don't jump to conclusions, we still have a long way to go before this whole thing is over" before you stop making assumptions that the End Times are upon us and the fluff is forever ruined?

I'll happily sit there and discuss strange things in the fluff that I can't make any sense of and postulate the hell out of what it might come to actually mean....but I'm not going to be worried that what I've seen so far is all that there is to see and that the story might not end up being radically different when I know more.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Now to another point:

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. :lol:

I found a few, here, here, and here. But they are not easy to dig up, so there is bound to be more. (These also only date back to 2010.) I would like to think that my perceptions of the negative reputation Guilliman and the Ultramarines sometimes get is based on my years of debunking such accusations on this very forum, and are not simply the result of paranoia.

I'll agree that people have said it before (clearly they have), but I'm fairly sure Idaho means that you two are pretty much the only ones complaining about Know No Fear in that respect....which is....odd.

[Captain Idaho]

Now to another point:

‘’Guilliman spent the Great Crusade building up Ultramar while his brothers fought in the front lines!” is a common criticism before this novel that is now justified with this new revelation.

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. :)

I found a few, here, here, and here. But they are not easy to dig up, so there is bound to be more. (These also only date back to 2010.) I would like to think that my perceptions of the negative reputation Guilliman and the Ultramarines sometimes get is based on my years of debunking such accusations on this very forum, and are not simply the result of paranoia.

I'll agree that people have said it before (clearly they have), but I'm fairly sure Idaho means that you two are pretty much the only ones complaining about Know No Fear in that respect....which is....odd.

 

Well I was exaggerating a little, because we've all seen the posts in the past, but I meant recently and in reference to the novel Know No Fear. It was a little tongue in cheek, hence the smilie (sure you guys got that, but just for the record).

 

It is true though that the loudest protests about the novel have come from Ultras fans, which is a shame.

[Legatus]

Well, on the one hand I doubt that the new size of Ultramar or Chapters are of much concern to non-fans of the Ultramarines, so that might not be the first thing for them to comment on. We would have to wait and see whether the five hundred worlds get referenced in future discussions about Guilliman's noble or underhanded intentions during the Great Crusade.

 

On the other hand, perhaps people are a bit more careful about throwing around accusations against the Ultramarines or Guilliman on this particular forum? I certainly put a lot of work into that matter. B) I am not active in other Forums, though a quick check over at Dakka provided this.

 

The unfortunate matter of fact is that in the past it had been easy to dismiss accusations against Guilliman being more concerned with building his own realm by refering to the background description of how he had already united the worldsa around Macragge before the Emperor had found him. There was no background explaining that he had increased the size of Ultramar beyond that during his time in the Great Crusade (which would have seen the Ultramarines liberate 25,000+ worlds). But now there is. Now there is background describing that this is exactly what had happened.

[Gree]

Ironically no-one says such things, except you two s=Iltras fans! (at least I have witnessed you two and no-one else. B)

 

I have seen some accusations on Warseer, DakkaDakka, 40kOnline and Spacebattles, but I’m not going to dig through years of old threads to find stuff for you. (I've seen accusations that the Ultramarines control an entire Segmentum before.) I myself don’t necessarily think its bad myself. However I have already seen others take it as such on DakkaDakka. I find it unnecessary and it provides extra fuel for the Ultrahate.

 

You know, building Ultramar and fighting the Crusade aren't mutually exclusive and can be done alongside each other too.

 

As I said before, you can justify it and have Guilliman have good intentions, but in the end it just makes Guilliman look like an underhanded empire builder making a personal grab for power.

 

I've said it before; you shouldn't read the Heresy series and make assumptions and judgements based upon knowledge of the current 4oK universe, read the series as if you have know idea what's going to happen. You'll enjoy it a lot more.

 

I am making judgments based on the context of the 30k period and the past history of the fans reaction to the Ultramarines. The variety of needless and rather nonsensical retcons in the Heresy series. (We had no real reason to give the Ultramarines 500worlds.) does not help.

[Captain Idaho]

Ahem, tying the thread into the original topic, I think the Ultramarines are much more popular from the Know No Fear novel. People have read the book rather than disregard it as an Ultramarines novel, and they've found the Ultramarines weren't what they thought, that the Ultramarines do have good intentions and aren't just Empire builders.

 

Whilst there has undoubtedly been anti-Ultras sentiment in the past on all the major 40K forums, since the novel came out the majority of people seem to have gone; "huh, they're alright actually."

 

I'm even going to stick my neck out and say I think the Ultramarines are more popular among non-Ultramarines fans than Space Wolves are among non-Space Wolves fans.

[Black Mage 257]

Favourite Primarch: Lorgar

Favourite Legion: Luna Wolves

 

I've loved Lorgar since before the HH series as I used to be a Word Bearers player but since I read First Heretic/Aurelian (Gold edition :)) he has truly become my favourite and the addition of Know No Fear only increased my love of him more.

 

I love the Luna Wolves because the original trilogy of the HH series are my favourites, I loved all the characters and the general theme of the legion and it's eventual fall.