Part 3 - The Finale of The Lion Novella - Horus Heresy

[Vazzy]

Its like the Uncle says in death of a salesman, "Never fight fair with a stranger." Kurze had become a stranger to Lion, so the lion did what I would do in this situation, cheat. Still on topic, when is the next h&b out?

[Captain Semper]

Cool quote Vazzy! :( Pitty that the cheating did not win him the duel though...

[b1soul]

From reading it, I felt that the Lion could've won pretty easily in the beginning. He's clearly the better weapons master. However, he does underestimate Curze and takes his time to belittle his opponent.

 

This is just my opinion of course, but I think that the Lion's first blow, the one that caught Curze off-guard, could've been a killing blow had the Lion been more vicious. Furthermore, the Lion could've quickly overwhelmed Curze afterward had he spent more energy on killing Curze swiftly and less on mocking his opponent.

[EPK]

From reading it, I felt that the Lion could've won pretty easily in the beginning. He's clearly the better weapons master. However, he does underestimate Curze and takes his time to belittle his opponent.

 

This is just my opinion of course, but I think that the Lion's first blow, the one that caught Curze off-guard, could've been a killing blow had the Lion been more vicious. Furthermore, the Lion could've quickly overwhelmed Curze afterward had he spent more energy on killing Curze swiftly and less on mocking his opponent.

 

Totally agree. But we know this can't happen - it's not about viciousness at all (though that's a good way to rationalize it) - it's about the fact that the main story is already written.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

That rascal, the Lion.. How dare he "cheat" against the poor little leader of the murder tactic legion by getting the first blow in a non-agreed beforehand "duel"? <_<

[Interrogator Stobz]

Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.

 

Never worry about fairness in a fight to the death, only winning.

 

I really like the SW story but yep, the Lion got served and saved.

I do love the first stab though, excellent move that should have been followed up or at very least 'wriggled about'.

[b1soul]

Totally agree. But we know this can't happen - it's not about viciousness at all (though that's a good way to rationalize it) - it's about the fact that the main story is already written.

Well, that's definitely an out-of-universe explanation. I was offering an in-universe explanation.

[Phoebus]

I gotta disagree with some of you guys. I thought the author himself covered this pretty well. If Curze could survive a sword through the torso and make a comeback... and then a SECOND sword through the back and walk away... I have no problem imagining the Lion recovering from being choked and bashed against the ground.

 

Seriously folks - think about it. The swords Curze was getting stabbed by were the pinnacle of human melee weapon technology at the time. The dirt and rocks the Lion was getting pounded on are just that. The Lion was suffering much more from the impact being delivered by Curze's own strength than by the material he was getting smashed on. And as stated already, Curze took a Primarch's sword - delivered with the strength of a Primarch - and got better. This only looks bad for the Lion because the author chose to end the fight when he did (compounded by the fact that Sevatar took down one of our Captains*, as well). You'll note that the Lion is just as mobile, angry, and vocal as Curze at the end of the fight, as their respective warriors drag them away.

 

* And you know what that means... if Alajos was one of the three best swordsmen in the entire Legion, then Sevatar is the match of pretty much any Dark Angel. I guess that's fair, though, given his rank and position.

[b1soul]

If Curze could survive a sword through the torso and make a comeback... and then a SECOND sword through the back and walk away... I have no problem imagining the Lion recovering from being choked and bashed against the ground.

I'd be more tempted to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the Lion does nothing to Curze while Curze is struggling to get Corswain off his back. The authour mentioned that the Lion could've gotten a surge of energy and stabbed Curze with a dagger/bashed him with a rock from below.

The perfect time to do that would've been when Curze was being distracted by Corswain. However the Lion didn't, which implies that he was probably recovering from being choked unconscious.

 

I do love the first stab though, excellent move that should have been followed up.

The Lion should've stabbed Curze through the mouth or decapitated him. If you're going to sucker someone, you might as well kill him.

The Lion really is a fence-sitter <_<

[Interrogator Stobz]

You raise a good point Brother P, Primarchs do recover very fast. But surely they would need a slight break from the damage causing tool to regenerate/heal. The Lion took his sword out iirc and Cors was also removed, if Curze wasn't stopped/distracted (even for a few seconds) the Lion may have not been able to recover.

 

I still am amazed that Lion and Russ can fight for a day and a half and still be fresh compared to us. And that the Lion can knock Russ out with one punch after that but can't kill Curze with a pre-emptive stab. Gotta love 40k, anything can happen and usually does.

 

s

[b1soul]

the Lion can knock Russ out with one punch after that but can't kill Curze with a pre-emptive stab. Gotta love 40k, anything can happen and usually does.

Yeah, it's rather ironic that a sucker punch with a fist was more effective than a sucker stab with a sword

Sometimes, the fist is mightier than the sword (in 40K, that is)?

[Phoebus]

I'd be more tempted to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the Lion does nothing to Curze while Curze is struggling to get Corswain off his back. The authour mentioned that the Lion could've gotten a surge of energy and stabbed Curze with a dagger/bashed him with a rock from below.

The perfect time to do that would've been when Curze was being distracted by Corswain. However the Lion didn't, which implies that he was probably recovering from being choked unconscious.

It's called dramatic license. :tu:

 

How long do you think that entire scene lasted, from Corswain's stab to being hurled? He chocked Curze for a "handful" (five) seconds. By the time Curze throws him off, the Lion is back on his feet, sword in hand.

 

You raise a good point Brother P, Primarchs do recover very fast. But surely they would need a slight break from the damage causing tool to regenerate/heal.

Indeed they do. In this case, longer than it took for the Dark Angels and the Night Lords to arrive by Drop Pod and intervene in the duel.

 

The Lion took his sword out iirc and Cors was also removed, if Curze wasn't stopped/distracted (even for a few seconds) the Lion may have not been able to recover.

Absent other qualifiers, I might agree. When the author who wrote the story says otherwise (that the Lion might yet have reversed the course of the fight), I have to disagree.

 

I still am amazed that Lion and Russ can fight for a day and a half and still be fresh compared to us. And that the Lion can knock Russ out with one punch after that but can't kill Curze with a pre-emptive stab. Gotta love 40k, anything can happen and usually does.

The difference here is that "Savage Weapons" is about as close as you can get to "eye-witness testimony", whereas "The Lion and the Wolf" is a legend being recounted ten thousand years after the fact. The former is being told in "real time", whereas the latter is described in the same way that the duel between Achilles and Hector is told today. The Lion and Russ may well have brawled, and the former probably did knock the latter out. I seriously doubt the brawl lasted a day, though.

 

My opinion? The Lion fell victim to his own hubris. His demeanor throughout the fight (up to the brawling phase) shows he did not take Curze seriously. He might have paid for it, absent Corswain, but he very well might not have. It's not skill or strength he was found wanting when facing Curze. Quite the contrary - it's qualified that Curze lacked the skill to fully defend himself from the Lion.

[Candleshoes]

Reading these last few comments really reminds me of False Gods, when Horus falls and it rests within the Sons of Horus apothecaries to assess and try to treat the primarch. Even with all of their knowledge and skill, they have NO idea or understanding of Primarch biology, what is considered normal, treatable, how much tolerance their physical body can take or cope with. They are terrified at how alien their lord truly is, in comparison to them.

 

As pointed out, Curze took what us as readers (and Corswain for that matter) saw as grevious wounds, and brushed them off as nothing. The Lion being throttled is certainly written as being much more immediate in what we perceive as life threatening, but the reality is, none of us as readers have a clear idea of the force required to put down a primarch (other than the cannon deaths). One item of note, something that even is brought up during the talk before the fight between Curze and himself, is the fact they they both grew up in the shadow of humanity, in the wild. The Lion is no stranger to the way a beast fights, and what is often required to kill them. In their feral way, they can accomplish anything while clinging on to their survival and rage. There is no rhyme or reason to what they do when that mentality washes over them. In the Lion's character rests a poor judgment of those closest, and in his hubris at the begining of the duel, this is very present. But the Lion isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and win by any means neccesary, whether or not it teeters on becoming that beast himself, or whether or not his willpower holds him in place to the ideals and virtues that the Order placed in him. Though left in an ugly place, anything could have happened in that ground fight, between two of the most dangerous and wild beings in the Imperium.

[Cactus]

Phoebus and Candleshoes are correct.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Phoebus and Candleshoes are correct.

So are others. It's opinion based on fiction :(

[Cactus]

Ok, what I meant was that I agree wholeheartedly with Phoebus and Candleshoe's analysis that supports the fact that we can't be certain the Lion was conclusively beaten in the fight. If you (not specifically you Stobz, anyone) think he was, fair enough, that's your opinion and just as valid as mine.

 

However, as my support of the arguments put forth by the aforementioned B&C members contributed nothing to the discussion beyond a demonstration of a contrary/supporting opinion, and it would be insulting to expect the reader to sit through my restating of many of the same points (most likely in a needlessly verbose and parenthesised (like this) manner), I tried to keep it pithy and thus failed to properly espouse the nuances of my position. :(

[Interrogator Stobz]

Ok, what I meant was that I agree wholeheartedly with Phoebus and Candleshoe's analysis that supports the fact that we can't be certain the Lion was conclusively beaten in the fight. If you (not specifically you Stobz, anyone) think he was, fair enough, that's your opinion and just as valid as mine.

 

However, as my support of the arguments put forth by the aforementioned B&C members contributed nothing to the discussion beyond a demonstration of a contrary/supporting opinion, and it would be insulting to expect the reader to sit through my restating of many of the same points (most likely in a needlessly verbose and parenthesised (like this) manner), I tried to keep it pithy and thus failed to properly espouse the nuances of my position. ^_^

Damn Skippy, I got owned :(

[Captain Semper]

My opinion? The Lion fell victim to his own hubris. His demeanor throughout the fight (up to the brawling phase) shows he did not take Curze seriously. He might have paid for it, absent Corswain, but he very well might not have. It's not skill or strength he was found wanting when facing Curze. Quite the contrary - it's qualified that Curze lacked the skill to fully defend himself from the Lion.

 

And yet he won! <_<

 

The thing is the Lion was losing badly to the point that a third party intervention was necessary. If it wasn't (necessary) then Corswain intervention is meaningless. It only speaks well for Corswain if he really saved his Primarch from certain death. Which the story clearly states

"...but the Night Lord's advantage was crystal clear. Curze shook the Lion's neck in his fists, cracking his brothers head against the rocky ground again and again and again. 'Die now, brother. History will be kinder to you this way."

Curze has the advantage and is proclaiming his victory and the Lion's death. The Lion lost. No two ways about it. If ADB intended something else he should have written it. In the book that is. I don't understand why people see this as a draw or even as a potential draw. OK so no one died (we knew this already before the story even started). But, in a straight fight, with no particular advantage by anyone the Lion lost. Was it because of hubris? maybe. I think it's because he failed to contain Curze and turn the fight to his advantage. So Curze (by definition) is better in 1-1 combat. Which is a pity because it's not a defining feature of him, whereas it was (supposedly) the Lion's. So the Lion lost in his own game.

 

Good story, but that dissapointed me because frankly it didn't need to be this way at all. If Curze was to lose and be saved the last minute, people would say, "what'd you expect? he duelled with the master duellist among Primarchs and lost - seems OK". But now we need to rationalise this and say what might have happened if Corswain wasn't there and all these "what ifs" that really do not lead anywhere.

 

I think the new novella by Gav has all the ingridients to give the Lion some of his Primarch awesomeness that he desperately needs. Let's hope it continues in the same vein.

[b1soul]

If ADB intended something else he should have written it. In the book that is. I don't understand why people see this as a draw or even as a potential draw.

I honestly think a lot of people are just agreeing with the authour because he is a fan favourite and makes his views known on forums

 

If the authour had come out and said "no it wasn't a draw, Curze was on the verge of killing the Lion before Corswain saved his primarch's life", almost everyone would be swinging the other way (except the most hardcore DA fans)

 

I think the actual words on the pages indicate that Corswain saved the Lion. Arguments to the contrary are less persuasive. However the authour's opinion tends to sway a lot of people.

 

How long do you think that entire scene lasted, from Corswain's stab to being hurled? He chocked Curze for a "handful" (five) seconds. By the time Curze throws him off, the Lion is back on his feet, sword in hand.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, primarchs are incredibly fast in both mind and body. If Curze could struggle and buck and then throw Corswain within those 5 seconds (or whatever the time-frame actually was), the Lion should've been able to do something to Curze within those same 5 seconds

 

But the Lion isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and win by any means neccesary, whether or not it teeters on becoming that beast himself, or whether or not his willpower holds him in place to the ideals and virtues that the Order placed in him.

Come to think of it, the Lion should be capable of brawling just as well as Curze. The Lion was a feral child fighting Warp beats on a daily basis for survival. I suppose his time with The Order "tamed" his inner beast to a certain degree? I think that's what you're in a way saying?

[EPK]

I honestly think a lot of people are just agreeing with the authour because he is a fan favourite and makes his views known on forums

You're right, but it's not because he is a "fan favorite", at least for me, it's simply because the authors opinion matters greatly. Telling the author what he meant to write sounds like telling a painter what he meant to paint even if he says it something completely different. Perhaps he chose the wrong few words to get his point across, but he still the author and knows what he intended.

 

And that's what we are really arguing in the end, the author did not write what he intended. He said that this was meant to be a draw, with the Lion having the advantage in the beginning and Curze by the end. I wonder if we would have preferred one of ADB's earlier drafts, surely he had a few... What if they came out with another version that omitted the terms "crystal clear", "slack neck" and added one sentence that said the Lion was on his feet almost instantly but feared to strike out at Curze, worried he might also hit Corswain (or we could just assume that, since we are assuming some things anyway). The rest of the story remains he same. Two words removed and one line added. That's all we are talking about here.

 

 

Well, if I'm not mistaken, primarchs are incredibly fast in both mind and body. If Curze could struggle and buck and then throw Corswain within those 5 seconds (or whatever the time-frame actually was), the Lion should've been able to do something to Curze within those same 5 seconds

And we can play the he should of/he could of game all day. If Primarchs are so quick, why is the Lion still alive? Surely Curze had plenty of time to end his life in the time it took Corswain to reach him. And you might say, well he was choking him to death, so it takes longer, and I'll say, certainly he had another weapon within reach to cut his head from his shoulders... Yadda, yadda, yadda...

 

 

Curze has the advantage and is proclaiming his victory and the Lion's death.

And the cliche bad guy does this in every cliched ending - right before the hero plunges his hidden dagger into his gut or picks up that rock next to him and bashes him in the head OR his companion who had been knocked out of the fight earlier finally stabs a sword through his spine. Unfortunately, in this story, the cliche bad guy can not die.

 

I certainly do see what you guys are saying though. Maybe I'm just a glass his half full kinda guy.

[Phoebus]

I honestly think a lot of people are just agreeing with the authour because he is a fan favourite and makes his views known on forums

I can only speak for myself, and, in my instance, this is not the case.

 

We human beings are imperfect, and whether it comes down to getting our point across in a story or in a discussion, we won't always succeed in doing so. When the person conveying the point says, "OK, great, maybe I didn't make myself clear... THIS is what I mean", though, that's got to count for something.

 

I mean, do you want an example of how people sometimes slip/fail/don't get their point across perfectly? Alajos tells Corswain it will take seven minutes for the drop pods to reach them. He says so as the Lion is being choked/bashed. So what are we supposed to make of this?

 

1. On the one hand, one could plausibly (absent any other qualifiers) surmise that Curze choking and beating the Lion's head against a rock for six-seven minutes is a clear indicator of victory.

2. On the other hand, though, one could just as plausibly point out that Curze was choking and beating the Lion's head against a rock for six-seven minutes... but that the Lion got up from that and was in no worse shape than Curze was.

3. Alternately, one could arrive at the conclusion that, for one reason or another, the author didn't realize that his words were painting a picture of a Primarch being choked and bashed for six-seven minutes to begin with.

4. ... or, perhaps, that the author didn't intend for his words to be taken so literally.

 

If the authour had come out and said "no it wasn't a draw, Curze was on the verge of killing the Lion before Corswain saved his primarch's life", almost everyone would be swinging the other way (except the most hardcore DA fans)

As they should have... :P

 

I think the actual words on the pages indicate that Corswain saved the Lion. Arguments to the contrary are less persuasive. However the authour's opinion tends to sway a lot of people.

I think it's fair to say that Corswain definitely helped the Lion out and restored parity to the fight. Beyond that, I think it's clear that the Lion was the better fighter, but was also arrogant enough to lose the fight.

 

Well, if I'm not mistaken, primarchs are incredibly fast in both mind and body. If Curze could struggle and buck and then throw Corswain within those 5 seconds (or whatever the time-frame actually was), the Lion should've been able to do something to Curze within those same 5 seconds

Again, it's called dramatic license. Different folks, different strokes. :lol:

 

But the Lion isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and win by any means neccesary, whether or not it teeters on becoming that beast himself, or whether or not his willpower holds him in place to the ideals and virtues that the Order placed in him.

Come to think of it, the Lion should be capable of brawling just as well as Curze. The Lion was a feral child fighting Warp beats on a daily basis for survival. I suppose his time with The Order "tamed" his inner beast to a certain degree? I think that's what you're in a way saying?

I think you're right about the Order "taming" him. I also think this directly ties in to him not taking Curze seriously. The Lion leads a Legion of knights - proper warriors - and wins his battles through superior tactics and strategy. I could see how, in his eyes, Curze has revealed himself to be a base bully who achieves victory by terrorizing those weaker than he and persecuting helpless civilians. As a result, the Lion approaches the prospect of fighting him with an unfortunate degree of contempt.

 

And yet he won! :blush:

Up to that point, yes, Curze was on top. And hey, you know, if ADB hadn't commented to the contrary... I, too, would have assumed Curze would have gone on to win. It definitely wouldn't be the first time the best fighter didn't win. :lol:

 

Incidentally, I found myself wondering why he didn't just finish off the Lion instead of just bashing/choking him. I think he was in whatever la-la land he was in when he took out Dorn, to be honest. More ranting and psychotic than focused on finishing the fight.

 

The thing is the Lion was losing badly to the point that a third party intervention was necessary. If it wasn't (necessary) then Corswain intervention is meaningless. It only speaks well for Corswain if he really saved his Primarch from certain death. Which the story clearly states

"...but the Night Lord's advantage was crystal clear. Curze shook the Lion's neck in his fists, cracking his brothers head against the rocky ground again and again and again. 'Die now, brother. History will be kinder to you this way."

Curze has the advantage and is proclaiming his victory and the Lion's death. The Lion lost. No two ways about it. If ADB intended something else he should have written it. In the book that is.

See my thoughts, above. :lol:

 

I don't understand why people see this as a draw or even as a potential draw.

Again, see above. For myself, though, I take ADB's intent and figure that the Lion could have come back... but guess what? Maybe that means he comes back and wins... or he comes back and loses... or he comes back and they both end up dead. :lol:

 

OK so no one died (we knew this already before the story even started). But, in a straight fight, with no particular advantage by anyone the Lion lost. Was it because of hubris? maybe. I think it's because he failed to contain Curze and turn the fight to his advantage. So Curze (by definition) is better in 1-1 combat.

Here, I disagree. It's qualified in the story that the Lion is the better combatant in terms of skill. It's also shown that he's not taking Curze seriously. That bites him in the end.

 

Good story, but that dissapointed me because frankly it didn't need to be this way at all. If Curze was to lose and be saved the last minute, people would say, "what'd you expect? he duelled with the master duellist among Primarchs and lost - seems OK". But now we need to rationalise this and say what might have happened if Corswain wasn't there and all these "what ifs" that really do not lead anywhere.

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, just because I'm willing to take ADB's word for it it doesn't mean that I'm not disappointed with the Lion's showing here. On the other hand... Aside from the Lion's theme as a "knight lord", I don't think I've ever seen anything about him duelling besides him and Russ swordfighing in older fluff. So maybe, theme aside, the Lion is primarily a strategist and tactician first and foremost, and a melee combatant second.

 

I think the new novella by Gav has all the ingridients to give the Lion some of his Primarch awesomeness that he desperately needs. Let's hope it continues in the same vein.

I do hope it works out. On the other hand, I'm really sad to see the Lion's stance in "Savage Weapons" ("loyalty is its own reward", etc.) going back down a darker alley. C'est la guerre, I guess. :lol:

 

Cheers,

P.

[Captain Semper]

Up to that point, yes, Curze was on top. And hey, you know, if ADB hadn't commented to the contrary... I, too, would have assumed Curze would have gone on to win. It definitely wouldn't be the first time the best fighter didn't win. :)

 

You see, here's what bugs me: How do you define the better fighter? To me it's the one that wins in the end of the day. The Lion sure looks to have better command of technigue and swordmanship on the theoretical level. But if you can't win in the end then frankly, you are not a better fighter... Mental conditioning matters and is also a basic ingridient for winning the day. Assuming the Lion underestimated Curze (actually I'd expect the Lion to be waaay more calculative than that - this is Fulgrim kind of attitude) it automatically takes something away from his personality -not to mention his fighting ability. My stance is: why should it be that way? This is not how the Lion is portrayed so far (through the ages) but more like a cold-headed, calculating individual that leaves nothing to chance. Looking down at his opponent (who happens to be a Primarch no less) is, to me, completely out of character.

 

Incidentally, I found myself wondering why he didn't just finish off the Lion instead of just bashing/choking him. I think he was in whatever la-la land he was in when he took out Dorn, to be honest. More ranting and psychotic than focused on finishing the fight.

 

Good point. La la land all the way! :)

 

Here, I disagree. It's qualified in the story that the Lion is the better combatant in terms of skill. It's also shown that he's not taking Curze seriously. That bites him in the end.

 

See my point above. Fighting is about winning. If you lose then you are not the better fighter in my book. The other guy is. Of course you raise valid points regarding how secure Curze's victory seemed, but to me it's pretty conclusive. And Corswain is a hero because of that. This is what put Corswain on the map for me. Not so much for stabbing a Primarch in the back (which is huge in itself) but because he overcomes the aura of Curze, fights back all that the SMs have been indctrinated to do just to save his Primarch from certain death. If his Primarch did not need saving - then Corswain is just a crazy marine getting in the way of two fighting Primarchs to do his bit. I don't like to think this is the case.

 

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, just because I'm willing to take ADB's word for it it doesn't mean that I'm not disappointed with the Lion's showing here. On the other hand... Aside from the Lion's theme as a "knight lord", I don't think I've ever seen anything about him duelling besides him and Russ swordfighing in older fluff. So maybe, theme aside, the Lion is primarily a strategist and tactician first and foremost, and a melee combatant second.

 

We are mostly on the same boat here. However even if we take the 1-1 mastery away from him, according to earlier arguments, he lost not because of lack of swordplay ability but for basically underestimating his opponent. Which clashes with him being strategist and tactician. Also the fact that he lost his cool in the end, :(... Just no... This short story had great beginning and great ending but the fight between the Lion and Curze was completely wrong in my view. If Curze had to win for some reason he should be given some unfair adanvtage... Just my 2c.

 

 

I do hope it works out. On the other hand, I'm really sad to see the Lion's stance in "Savage Weapons" ("loyalty is its own reward", etc.) going back down a darker alley. C'est la guerre, I guess. :(

 

This darkness, I don't mind. As many have noticed, I like my Dark Angels, ermmm, dark. :D Even more so in the 40k context. And the Lion has yet to fail me in Gav's novella! Let's see how it plays out in the end. ;)

[Grimdarkness]

"Curze win" and the wounds he took might explain his decent into madness and his change in appearance during the heresy to his death.

[Master Ciaphas]

Hail frateris

 

An interesting discussion here, though it seems that it has become a discussion concerning "Savage Weapons" rather than "The Lion".

 

I have read pretty much every piece of Dark Angel fiction out there, including "The Black Pearl", "Unforgiven", "Eye of Terror", "Angels of Darkness", "Descent of Angels", "Fallen Angels", "Call of the Lion", "Sons of Fenris", "Savage Weapons", "The Purging of Kadillus" and William Kings seminal piece "Deathwing".

 

While opinion is understandably divided on our two HH books to date (I actually rather enjoyed both, even if the latter part of "DoA" felt incredibly rushed and mashed in), I have only been dissappointed by Mr. Thorpes kindergarten attempts at Dark Angel fiction. "Call" was ok-ish, "Purging" was horrible, "Angels of Darkness" is ok, solely because it was our first real novel. "Savage Weapons" is in my humble opinion the best piece of fiction to date.

 

With regard to that particular piece, I naturally, would also have preferred The Lion to win hands down against Curze - but ADB has clearly stated that his intention with the story was for it to be a draw. Perhaps the Lion will get his own back in "The Prince of Crows" where I am guessing we will see Curze getting his throat slit by our angry, vengeful Primarch?

 

Who knows?

 

Now - as for "The Lion" story. I am trying not the get my hopes up. Mr. Thorpe has only dissappointed me in the past with his Dark Angel "fiction" (bear in mind that I actually like his Eldar "Path" books so far, and his "Avenging Sons" short story was also entertaining).

 

Regards,

Master Ciaphas

[EPK]

This is not how the Lion is portrayed so far (through the ages) but more like a cold-headed, calculating individual that leaves nothing to chance. Looking down at his opponent (who happens to be a Primarch no less) is, to me, completely out of character.

I can agree with that, Semper. That exchange of banter rubbed me the wrong way.