Cactus Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Copies of the Primarchs were on sale at Warhammer World on Saturday so I've now read the whole story. I won't spoil anything, but once it spreads we won't be discussing Corswain's courage or analysing the Lion's skill with a sword. I called it right. :P I think the Death Guard's perception of the Dark Angels is caused by their librarians, rather than being the Watchers. I still think the little guys are cool though. Like Jawa wizards. :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 “He destroyed three Legions at Isstvan, but my Dark Angels were not amongst them. Curze, Mortarion, Horus, none of them desire full scale war with my Legion, and for good reason.” Is this going to be out as a book sometime or do i need to buy it online? And if there is no book a linky is appreciated because my search fu is week today :rolleyes: The book is The Primarchs and "The Lion" is one of four short stories in it.... SG Thanks for the heads up brother,I will hunt this down since except the Lion it has three of the most interesting Primarchs in it. Are the rest of the stories as good or is it worth only for the Lion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'd hazard Alpharius and Omegon would prove an interesting read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'd hazard Alpharius and Omegon would prove an interesting read. Oh it really does :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 Was searching through ADB's blog and stumbled across the following, back a few months ago when he did a Q and A at the beginning of the year. What was interesting was the Prince of Crows refrence, in that he mentions that the NL's lost to the DA at the end of Thramas. With the new info from The Lion, I wonder if the "device" plays into that loss at all? “I second the question about Abaddon ! A rise of the warmaster dualogy would be great ! By the way, when does prince of crows take place ? Will it feature the dark angels and the Lion again also and the tsagualsa battles between night lords and dark angels or will it be about another event / time ?” The Prince of Crows takes place at the end of the Thramas Crusade, when the Night Lords have literally just lost to the Dark Angels. The Dark Angels aren’t in it much; it’s mostly about the Night Lords dealing with the fallout, and a lot of Curze’s introspection about where he’s at in life. *** “Your Dark Angel short story “Savage Weapons” was epic in the latest HH anthology. Have you considered writing a “contemporary” Dark Angel novel/short story, set in the 41st Millennium – or are the Dark Angels given over to Gav Thorpe?And Merry Christimas!” Many thanks. Dead proud of that story. I’d love to write a Dark Angels novel or series, but time is a factor, and I have almost none of it. If I was going to write about a loyalist Chapter, I’d be likely to choose either: - The Blood Angels or one of their Successors. - The Dark Angels or one of their Successors. - A Chapter that Forge World has done a lot of work with, like the Red Scorpions. - Create my own Unforgiven Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I stand at the create my own unforgiven chapter...A new successor in the making is hinted perhaps? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hm..I was under assumption that all demons can be killed (physical body destroyed, cast back into warp) by "normal" weapons. Its just a matter of bringing enough firepower. And if anyone has firepower, it's space marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hm..I was under assumption that all demons can be killed (physical body destroyed, cast back into warp) by "normal" weapons. Its just a matter of bringing enough firepower. And if anyone has firepower, it's space marines. Correctomundo, however it is suggested that due to the ship being within a warp rift, the daemons are able to sustain themselves far more easily. Once the ship moves back in to the material realm they become vulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hm..I was under assumption that all demons can be killed (physical body destroyed, cast back into warp) by "normal" weapons. Its just a matter of bringing enough firepower. And if anyone has firepower, it's space marines. As far as my understanding goes,a demon is able to sustain itself the closer to the warp it is.If a warp portal is near i believe they are capable of regenerating more easily even major 'wounds'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 So the Lion basicly tore apart the Keeper of Secrets while in his home turf? Go Lion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hm..I was under assumption that all demons can be killed (physical body destroyed, cast back into warp) by "normal" weapons. Its just a matter of bringing enough firepower. And if anyone has firepower, it's space marines. As far as my understanding goes,a demon is able to sustain itself the closer to the warp it is.If a warp portal is near i believe they are capable of regenerating more easily even major 'wounds'. This^ Daemons are not a "fixed" power level. Sure on the tabletop they have a stat line and some special rules and you can rationalize a perceived power level vs. a marine. But in a warp saturated environment it's a different story. No wonder phychic power is the prime weapon against them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3039994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 So the Lion basicly tore apart the Keeper of Secrets while in his home turf?Go Lion! Yes... Yes he did... Good point. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 All right, so, what's the Lion's beef with Guilliman? I can't remember Guilliman saying or doing anything in the HH series so far that would suggest that he's planning to set up his Eastern Empire. Have I missed something, or is this just another example of the Lion's paranoia? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think it's the latter Ferocious. Not so much full on paranoia, but more likely that he doesn't trust the depth of RG's intentions, or the manner in which he goes about dealing with things. Peers often have a much keener eye for perceived mistakes in the way they conduct themselves, and in the competition between Primarchs for victories and tactical acumen, they must have butted heads. Much like in current politics, politicians have many viewpoints on the best or the most legitimate way of solving a large problem, often coming at it from an angle that represents their past, their knowledge and their personality/beliefs. The Lion is smart enough to see the devastation (Scouring/Rebuilding) after the storm (Siege of Terra), just like Guilliman, but (like many of his brothers) his view of what future outcome is best, clashes with Guillimans. Before that, likely it was the same, but instead it was grounded in conducting their campaigns in the Great Crusade. Guilliman, greatly respected, but often disliked, or distrusted, whether or not his actions were for the best. I think at least from the Ultramarine's writings we have read in the HH so far, Guilliman seems much more comfortable making ground up changes to ensure the future of Man, where as the Lion, keeping with his character, is uncomfortable in allowing himself or his peers be capable of making that choice, seeing it as only the Emperor's place. An 'Honour the Past, Make the Present' vs 'Build the Future' mindset colliding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I agree with Candleshoes. The Lion must have seen RG as a rival and disliked his methods... Also most Primarchs disliked RG albeit for other reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Personally, I think it would really enrich the Horus Heresy story to see some kind of attempt by Guilliman to set up the Empire of Macragge, perhaps owing only a token fealty to the Emperor. It's the direction Macragge went anyway, with multiple systems directly commanded by the Ultramarines and immune from paying tithes and the other sorts of things typical of Imperial planets, so it would be good in my opinion to show Guilliman taking advantage of the chaos of the Heresy to set this arrangement up. But Ultramarines fans, I'm sure, wouldn't like it so much. Probably akin to a non-DA fan saying that the Fallen should be revealed to be the ones who are REALLY the loyalists and the DAs are the traitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 While i agree with most of the above that text there gives me the impression of a tired,resigned man. 'After the emperor falls there would be none worthy(including himself?) to succeed him so i must...' He seems to know that without him in the siege all hell will brake loose and already can fathom the outcome and makes plans for afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Well, he seems to know the strengths of his brothers (cousins :) )very well and could predict the outcome more or less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It would also explain why he put up with Russ, despite their conflicts. He was the only other Primarch he could trust to be loyal to the Emperor, come what may. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 All right, so, what's the Lion's beef with Guilliman? I can't remember Guilliman saying or doing anything in the HH series so far that would suggest that he's planning to set up his Eastern Empire. Have I missed something, or is this just another example of the Lion's paranoia? Guilliman was the only one whose legion had control of an entire system including all the worlds within Ultramar. All other legions had a chapter world. So one could already envisage an Eastern Empire. Secondly during this latest engagement with the Ironhands and Deathguard, the Lion, very correclty trusted neither party. Give the fact that it was Gulliman who had sent the IHs to do the deed despite the worls being one protected by the Lion... would you fault the Lion for considering such potential designs by Guilliman? I wouldn't! B) It would also explain why he put up with Russ, despite their conflicts. He was the only other Primarch he could trust to be loyal to the Emperor, come what may. Sounds reasonable! ;) SG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm also thinking we've just found a great way to transport a large 'rocky' space bourne craft and it's humungous fleet around the galaxy too. Just thinking, that's all.... :P stobz Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 To throw something else in the mix, in Know no Fear, it mentions the Ultras as having control/overlordship of Ultramar which is all well and good, but it then says that it is something like 500 worlds...and growing. Now, this probably drops after the Second Founding, new worlds handed to the successors and what have you, but, the Lion must know of this. Perhaps this was a source of contention between them? Or he just believed that Roboute should not have the power over so many worlds and thus feared his ambition? Perhaps wrongly...but there is a possible reason for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think the entire political spectrum is being played out here. He who knows the rules best wins the game. He who controls the rules, controls the players of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm also thinking we've just found a great way to transport a large 'rocky' space bourne craft and it's humungous fleet around the galaxy too. Holy moly, I didn't think of that! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm also thinking we've just found a great way to transport a large 'rocky' space bourne craft and it's humungous fleet around the galaxy too. Holy moly, I didn't think of that! ;) Neither did I,but i dont believe that to be the case.There has never been mentioned anything strange about the rocks ability to traverse space.All we know is that 'massive warp engines were installed'. However if stobz speculation is correct,how much cooler can the chapter become? -"Hey bro,we found an STC and that makes flamethrower tanks!" -"Yeah?Well our primarch once found that engine...It can transport us instantly through the warp with no danger and is attached to a human to use to talk...because you know...it is sentient?" -" :D " Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247005-part-3-the-finale-of-the-lion-novella-horus-heresy/page/9/#findComment-3040584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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