Storm bolters on vehicles

[BattleBrotherJohn]

I have a few storm bolters in my bits box from various vehicle kits ( Predator , Razorback etc ) .

 

Before cutting them up and using the ammo mag's for some DIY Sternguard I thought I would ask if people ever use storm bolters on their vehicles.

 

The Rhino is the only vehicle were the stormbolter is standard kit , and an optional extra for pretty much everything else.

 

With vehicles like the Predator or Land Raider ( which will sit back and shoot long range ) the storm bolter isnt really worth taking ( or is it ? )

 

But what about Land Raider Redeemers which are more assault based and designed to get up close and personal with your opponent . Would the bolter's extra firepower be any benefit ?

 

( apologises if this question has been asked before - my search fu is rather poor ).

[xmaverickzerox]

As far as I know, most people get storm bolters to suck weapon destroyed results. But one could argue if it is worth the points . The redeemer would probably not use it anyway, since it is moving the whole time to get to the oponent, and then you can only use one, or maximum two weapons with POTM. And that would be flamestorm cannons (or the assault cannon if you're not within range)...

 

For the rhino it can be nice, since weapon destroyed in a vehicle without weapon is also vehicle immobilized. The stormbolter would be ideal to prevent vehicle immobilized in that way.

 

Normally I only use those if I have points left that I really can't use any better elsewhere.

[chaptermasters]

Depends on what you want to do with the tank. Pointless if you want a tank hunting predictor or Landraider, much better to spent an extra 5 points and take a multimelta in the case of a landraider. I've got a few Rhinos with 2 sets of storm bolters. Move them into position then kill twice a much (or something for that matter) for a few extra few points, they can be good on an auto canon heavy bolter armed predator you going to want to shoot more than just one weapon a turn so might as well have a third. If your tank does get immobilised you'll be shooting them every turn. As xmaverickzerox states a good use of left over points, not a normally a primary consideration. and

[Chengar Qordath]

Have to agree that a storm bolter on a vehicle is at best leftover points territory. Two extra bolter shots just isn't all that impressive for the point cost. I guess having them to soak up one more weapon destroyed result before getting killed can be handy, but most of my vehicles (especially lighter ones like Rhinos) don't last long enough to take that many weapon destroyed/immobilized hits before they die. For most of my armies, I think that even when you have spare points, there are better choices.

[DarkGuard]

Cut up the storm bolters and use them for Sternguard ammo, for 10pts I find them to not be worth it, even on Rhinos, where some claim giving them one makes the viable as a shooty tank. It doesn't, keep the points cost down, move them 12".

 

Tanks which may actually have a use for them include dakka Preds and LRCs, as they normally shoot infantry and it can add a couple more shots to that. But still, not a massively good use of points, and in last points territory.

 

Make the Sternguard, any spare storm bolters can be used for storm bolters on vehicles if points spare.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I like the concept of going stormbolter heavy on Rhinos to make them a viable threat to infantry, but I have to agree with DarkGuard: it just isn't worth the points.

[Project.2501]

The only vehicles that I would recomend it on are ones that only have one other (non defensive) weapon on them: Turret weapon only (naked) preds including the baal pred or a vindicator for instance.

 

An exception could be made for particularly the land raider and possibly the land raider redeemer (points cost not withstanding) as their only armaments are non defensive weapons and in the case of the LR, it could benefit from a bit more ant-light infantry outside of it's heavy bolter and troop cargo.

[DarkGuard]

Remember that Vindicators come with storm bolters standard, so similar issue to Rhinos there (similar, not the same). Still, if I had 10pts left to spare for a Vindicator I'd prefer the siege shield.

[Project.2501]

My apologies, I wrote vindicator but was thinking whirlwind (which is in desperate need of a better 'heavy' missile than the vengeance ones IMO).

[Mysticaria]

Double storm bolter can actually be fairly good in small point games. Late game, a rhino with one storm bolter isn't really a threat, but with 4 shots it could actually kill something. That said, I'd pretty much always take a HKM over the extra storm bolter and even then only when I have extra points. How often do you play low point games?

 

Also, I've seen some people take them on the dakkapred. 95 points for 10 shots is pretty decent, plus being able to fire after moving. For the other predator versions I'd take the HKM over the storm bolter.

 

-Myst

[Bannus]

I will frequently put a stormbolter on a Land Raider. For a small investment, it helps out the TL heavy bolter in anti-infantry duties. Other than that, the Rhino and Vindicator are the only other vehicles I consider placing stormbolters on - because they also tend to get pretty close to the enemy and the Vindie can still be a small threat after the main gun gets knocked out.

[Ming]

In another way:

 

I only buy razorback or similar vehicles - not the rhinos themselves. I then make all the upgrades for the hatches I can, so I can model up 4 rhinos with HKMs and storm bolters when needed (or 4 razorbacks), etc. I find the pintle mounted storm bolter a great visual reminder.

 

The biggest thing is also to make sure you do HKMs. They can be invaluable additions.

 

Similarly - build the TL Havoc Launchers and TL bolters for Chaos rhinos. These can be great assets too.

[DarkGuard]

My apologies, I wrote vindicator but was thinking whirlwind (which is in desperate need of a better 'heavy' missile than the vengeance ones IMO).

 

Fair enough, though I still wouldn't give Whirlwinds storm bolters. Ideally they're hiding behind cover, and so wouldn't get to fire it anyway.

 

Dakka preds and Baal preds are decent shouts though, not essential though.

[Gideon999]

I use them a lot on my land raider crusader too. Adding two more bolter shots to the insane number it can already kick out (and use as defensive weapons) does help. And once you are spending 260pts on a tank, you may as well spend 10 more to make it as killy as possible.

[DarkGuard]

I use them a lot on my land raider crusader too. Adding two more bolter shots to the insane number it can already kick out (and use as defensive weapons) does help. And once you are spending 260pts on a tank, you may as well spend 10 more to make it as killy as possible.

 

+1 to this.

 

Though again, I cannot stress this enough, extra storm bolters are by no means compulsory or mandatory. There are some units you shouldn't get it for, but even those units that would benefit from it should only get them if there's points running spare. It's cool to add it to a Crusader, but the Crusader will do just fine without it. Same with a dakka pred, baal pred etc.

[Project.2501]

Honestly BattleBrotherJohn, there's been some good examples of vehicles/scenarios that could benefit from a(n extra) storm bolter, end result being at the very least, don't cut them up, give them some uses first on a few different vehicles and a few different lists. You never know, it might just work for you. They're still going to be there later should you decide to go the ammo box route.

[Warp Angel]

Storm Bolter Math:

 

Against MEQ - Shoot 2 x Hit 2/3 x Wound 1/2 x Failed Save 1/3 = 4/9 chance of killing a marine when you shoot it.

Against GEQ - Shoot 2 x Hit 2/3 x Wound 2/3 = 2/3 (6/9) chance of killing a guard when you shoot it.

 

Assuming a 7 turn game, with the ability to shoot every turn, you'll spend 10 points to kill 3 Marines or just around 5 guard averaged across your games, over time. Against Grey Knights (the new hotness) the numbers just plain suck for effectiveness.

 

BUT - most games don't go 7 turns.

AND - you won't be able to shoot every turn

SO - they're a lot less effective than that

 

I'd rather give a combi weapon to a sergeant (~55% chance to wound just about anything once per game and effective vs. vehicles) or upgrade a tactical squad's special weapon (same chances and reasoning) with those points or add wargear to a character somewhere before I went with a storm bolter on anything.

[Ming]

Storm Bolter Math:

 

Against MEQ - Shoot 2 x Hit 2/3 x Wound 1/2 x Failed Save 1/3 = 4/9 chance of killing a marine when you shoot it.

Against GEQ - Shoot 2 x Hit 2/3 x Wound 2/3 = 2/3 (6/9) chance of killing a guard when you shoot it.

 

Assuming a 7 turn game, with the ability to shoot every turn, you'll spend 10 points to kill 3 Marines or just around 5 guard averaged across your games, over time. Against Grey Knights (the new hotness) the numbers just plain suck for effectiveness.

 

BUT - most games don't go 7 turns.

AND - you won't be able to shoot every turn

SO - they're a lot less effective than that

 

I'd rather give a combi weapon to a sergeant (~55% chance to wound just about anything once per game and effective vs. vehicles) or upgrade a tactical squad's special weapon (same chances and reasoning) with those points or add wargear to a character somewhere before I went with a storm bolter on anything.

 

 

On the other hand, if you have a few points left and you are running MSU or rhinos, the extra shooting from storm bolters is cheaper than adding more generic marines (and an easy benefit as if you are running las-plas razorbacks, you are likely moving 6-inches a turn anyways). This has to be balanced vs how easy those vehicles get popped in your local meta. A rhino with 2 storm bolters (plus 2 of the occupants) could lay down some good fire wil driving off to an objective. Similar vein for a HKM, man how I wish you could reload those like they were havoc launchers....