BFG Space Marine list at 500 pts

[Viray]

Hey, I've been very slowly building up a small, and I mean small, Space Marine fleet for BFG. I'm looking to finalize this small project at the modest level of 500 pts and currently have a Strike Cruiser and four Hunters. What I'm trying to represent here is a small patrol fleet that has come together as a whole in order to face a threat greater than simple pirates.

 

The two lists I have in mind so far are:

 

Strike Cruiser

Strike Cruiser

4x Hunters

Fleet Commander (or whatever the upgrade is called that clocks in at 50 pts)

 

or

 

Strike Cruiser

3x Gladius

4x Hunter

Fleet Commander

 

Which list would you guys prefer in terms of efficacy? Also, which list comes off as more fluffly? Shoot, is this idea even fluffy? I really have no clue on how Marines go about their naval patrols.

[Vaaish]

500 points for marines is a tough number. The first list would probably perform best since you really need a second SC to get much headway. You can drop the Commander since you only need him in games that are 750 points or more which should give you enough for a 5th hunter. Probably the most efficient 500 point list for marines though would either be a single battle barge or a fleet made up entirely of escort.

[Viray]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

Probably the most efficient 500 point list for marines though would either be a single battle barge or a fleet made up entirely of escort.

A fleet comprised of entirely escorts is actually one of the more efficient lists at this level? Wow, I would have never guessed it. I suppose a fleet of escorts would also be more fluffy for what I have in mind anyway.

 

What about this:

4 Hunters

4 Gladii

4 Swords

 

500 on the dot.

[Vaaish]

Well, this is primarily because marine Strike Cruisers need to be in pairs or threes to have much effect on the table due to their low firepower and one shield making it pretty easy to start damaging them directly. That usually amounts to needing five or six or more before the SC becomes useful.

 

Taking all escorts minimizes this and helps build on the strong marine escort options. Typically you want to stick with the gladius and hunter too and odd number squadrons are better.

 

For instance I probably wouldn't take the swords and bulk up the other two squadrons. This is especially true of the Hunters since a single loss is going to really hurt the squadron if you take four. Since you are working at such a low point value, I'm going to depart from traditional marine escorts and bulk up the rest with Nova. This is for two reasons. First, it gives you 6x lances which are very useful at low point values particularly where you need to make every dice count. Second, it still gives enough battery strength to strip shields so those lances will have the most effect. Last, the Nova is 35cm same as your hunters which helps you keep things together.

 

5x hunter 200

6x nova 300

 

The unfortunate thing is that if you intend to build a fleet larger than 500 points, the nova's won't really help much since the gladius is a superior escort when you need every point you can squeeze out.

 

Anyway, just so you know what you might end up facing, as IN I usually take a Vengeance and 2x Dauntless or 2x Endeavours at 500 points. Sometimes I swap out the vengeance for an exorcist, but that's still one heavy ship and two agile ones.

[Vaaish]

Well, this is primarily because marine Strike Cruisers need to be in pairs or threes to have much effect on the table due to their low firepower and one shield making it pretty easy to start damaging them directly. That usually amounts to needing five or six or more before the SC becomes useful.

 

Taking all escorts minimizes this and helps build on the strong marine escort options. Typically you want to stick with the gladius and hunter too and odd number squadrons are better.

 

For instance I probably wouldn't take the swords and bulk up the other two squadrons. This is especially true of the Hunters since a single loss is going to really hurt the squadron if you take four. Since you are working at such a low point value, I'm going to depart from traditional marine escorts and bulk up the rest with Nova. This is for two reasons. First, it gives you 6x lances which are very useful at low point values particularly where you need to make every dice count. Second, it still gives enough battery strength to strip shields so those lances will have the most effect. Last, the Nova is 35cm same as your hunters which helps you keep things together.

 

5x hunter 200

6x nova 300

 

The unfortunate thing is that if you intend to build a fleet larger than 500 points, the nova's won't really help much since the gladius is a superior escort when you need every point you can squeeze out.

 

Anyway, just so you know what you might end up facing, as IN I usually take a Vengeance and 2x Dauntless or 2x Endeavours at 500 points. Sometimes I swap out the vengeance for an exorcist, but that's still one heavy ship and two agile ones.

[Viray]

Haha, 3 Captial ships seems like quite the challenge for a bunch of escorts. I'd imagine an all escort fleet is expected to take quite a few casualties trying to take on their bigger brothers. Maybe I'll just bump up my points cap to 750 and see what happens.

 

Really, all I want is fluffy patrol level fleet for the Astartes, but there seems to be little to no fluff I can find on the net that sets some sort of standard for such a force.

[Demoulius]

well 1 SC with some escorts is fluffy, but its not really competetive like Vaaish here said :)

 

With faq2010 rules you can deck out the SC with an extra shield for 15 pts and they become more durable, but you still need 2 at the very least to having some sort of hitting power...

 

SC with extra shield - 160 pts

SC with extra shield, forward bombardment cannon - 160 pts

squadron of 4 gladius frigates - 180 pts

 

500 pts on the dot. Renember that you dont need a fleet commander until your over 750 pts ;) i personally find the gladius to be more usefull then the hunter but then again torpedoes do have huge potential...

 

While still somewhat fluffy the fleet would be less powerfull compared to the all escort fleet im afraid (hitting power wise anyway) whilst they can absorb more. You can also keep the launching bays on the 2nd SC and harry your opponent with strike craft. You will be hard pressed to find opponents with that many ordenance in 500 pts :cry: also a S8 BC is downright frightening :cuss

 

although the IN does generally have torpedoes on every cruiser that you need to watch out for :blink:

 

at the end of the day 500 pts is simply not a balanced game. like 40K is balanced for 1500-1750 pts games smaller games generally tend to favour other armies then elite armies who simply cant bring enough manpower to bear. its the same with BFG really... although i must say i dont know what the sweet spot is :D

 

best of luck to you anyway m8 :)

[Viray]

Is the 2010 FAQ "official" yet? I suppose it really doesn't matter in the end if it is or isn't, but still...

 

Thanks for the list suggestion, by the way; I'll give it a go during the upcoming proxy games (to feel out the lists) I have planned.

 

On the part about 500 pts being unbalanced, I'll probably just ditch the idea for a 500 pts list then. A 750 points cap seems more reasonable both in terms of crunch and fluff anyway as I doubt a 500 pts fleet could effectively defend any significant portion of space.

 

I was thinking something along the lines of:

 

2 Strike Cruisers

4 Hunters

3 Novas

3 Novas

 

Anyway, besides all of that, and I know this is diverging from the topic a bit, but how do you guys personalize your ships? Of course, there's always the paint job, but conversion options seem real limited at this scale.

[Demoulius]

hmm tbh gladius frigates are more fluffy as novas are supposed to be rare but tabletop wise its a nice list :)

 

as for the faq2010 beeing "official" i dont think it is yet. just ask your gaming group if they mind playing the lists. tbh we dont like how the blast markers work in it and changed those back to how they originaly worked. its not like we are going to a tourney anyway, might as well make the game enjoyable no? B)

 

i havent really been able to personalize my cruisers all that much save for one, and it was a really easy conversion. on the aft portion of the ship (right above the engines) i added a ball of greenstuff and sculpted it to look like a dome. in my fluff its a sort of cathedral that the company uses prayer, tactical briefings and the place where the company keeps its relics :D

 

you gotta renember btw that fluffwise entire uprisings have been stomped into the ground by single strike cruisers as they carry an entire battle company. generaly when people hear theres a strike cruiser coming in they either try to finish what they started or the populace ends the uprising themselves to keep the marines from killing off their population. renegades fear them and both fluffwise and in the game theyre pretty nasty in a boarding action :)

 

so 1 or 2 strike cruiser in bfg isent all that impressive. fluffwise its nothing short of a death sentance for renegades/pirates/fleets not big enough to overwhelm them severly as the marines come to whoop some ass B)

 

ironic how reversed things are in BFG :D

[Viray]

Hey, sorry, Demoulius, for not replying sooner; it was a busy weekend for me.

 

On the bit about the Novas being a rare ship, I tried to explain it away through my fleet's fluff. It's a fleet comprised of vessels that have been assigned to patrol my Chapter's assigned territory, normally scattered throughout space but now gathered together to face a large threat. I figured that it would make sense that the only Novas in the Chapter would be assigned here. That way, they're out of sight in most of the conflicts the Chapter will be involved in, but also be ready to deploy if they're needed at the "frontlines."

 

Concerning conversions, while I'm sure your conversion turned out quite characterfully, I doubt I could do something similar since I not only lack any experience with greenstuff, I also lack greenstuff. :lol:

 

Oh, well.

 

About Strike Cruisers not being all that impressive in BFG, I'll to disagree on that. To this BFG noob, I just fell in love with the Astartes light cruiser after playing my first game. Yep, I finally had a chance to try BFG, and I must say that it was the most fun I've had on the tabletop in a long time. Sadly, I was able to keep my word to you about giving the list you gave me a whirl; we only had enough time for one game, so I instead opted to play with a list comprised of the models I already owned to test them out.

 

Also, when you think about it, most of the rebellions and pirates Marines curbstomp daily would most likely be severely outmatched in terms of "points value." I'd think a single SC with a couple of escort vessels could smash their way through the planetary defenses of near any given world in the Imperium; from what I could gather, most worlds' space protection wouldn't be all that impressive on the TT without an Imperial fleet backing it up. Likewise, I'm sure most pirate vessels, barring those of xenos origin, would be roughly on par with a low-class escort. I doubt a Strike Cruiser would have much trouble with such an outclassed enemy.

 

Or maybe I'm still just starry-eyed after seeing just how fast a pair of bombardment cannons at close range can do away with an enemy cruiser. :woot:

[Vaaish]

Or maybe I'm still just starry-eyed after seeing just how fast a pair of bombardment cannons at close range can do away with an enemy cruiser.

 

If this is happening with just one or two SC, you are doing something horribly wrong or your opponent is doing something horribly wrong! :woot:

 

The best case scenario is both SC in a single squadron attacking an enemy cruiser closing withing 15cm. Lets assume for the time being you are only firing the BC. You get 5 dice to roll with a combined s6 bombardment cannon which is an average of 2.5 hits. 3.75 if you lock on. Congratulations, you just dropped the shields and scored one or two hits on that cruiser under the best case scenario locked on. Under normal conditions you'll probably end up with a far less favorable firing solution, probably abeam which drops you to just two dice which will likely do little more than drop a single shield.

 

Now when the SC's start to get scary is under the FAQ2010 rules where you can swap out the launch bays with a fixed forward s5 BC. That combined with the extra shield makes a very nice heavy hitting cruiser. squadroned with a second, few things survive a close encounter with s16 bc locked on :lol:

[Viray]

If this is happening with just one or two SC, you are doing something horribly wrong or your opponent is doing something horribly wrong! ;)

Haha, why can’t it be both? It was both our first game, so plenty of mistakes all around. :D

 

By the way, it was indeed the best case scenario. I was within 15 cm with him moving towards my two squadroned cruisers. I managed to catch a lucky break on the dice rolling as well, and not only scored several hits, but two criticals that took away extra damage. If memory serves, one of the crits was a destroyed bulkhead, which was what finished off his cruiser.

 

Of course, my luck ended there, as his cruiser exploded and took one of my SCs, which was already hurting, with it.

 

As you can see by the above account, rife as it is with examples of terrible ignorance, we aren’t exactly sterling examples of feet admirals yet. ;)

 

Still, I think a SC really can hold its own against other lightweight cruisers (which was thankfully the majority of my opposition at that pts level).

[Demoulius]

bombardment cannons are a nasty piece of arnament :)

 

the other day i fired my S8 BC (s4 actually as he was braced) at a closing mars within 15 cms without shields. he figured he could do without bracing. after all what are the odds that all of them hit right? :D he ended up crippled in the first turn!! now like i said the shields were already stipped by something else (ouple of gladius frigates IIRC) but the look on his face was priceless ^_^ to make matters worse he rammed my SC next turn, did no damage and got 4 in return, hulking himself!! yes lots of laughs were had that day....except on the IN side...

 

most cases you will have to make your fleet work together, as it brings the best results. but bare bones strike cruisers can hardly be discounted as a threat :) lock on special orders makes them even nastier.... strip shields with batteries (with reroll quite possible to do) then strip the ship bare of its health points (also quite easy to do when hitting on 4's with reroll and criting on 4's!) my buddy fears my bombardment cannons alot. then again i fear his nova cannons and truck load of lances alot to :P seeing them as fancy marines lances should get you the right mindset on how to employ them :D

 

oh and i think weve all been on the "ship explodes takes half my fleet with it" boat... in one of our first games it quite literally did that and then some... an exploding (tyrant i think?) took down, 4 gladius, 3 hunters, 2 novas and a SC and crippled a 2nd... all because we thought that if you fail the first brace test (which i did <_< ) you cant take any further....dont let anyone tell you that, because its rubbish :lol:

[Viray]

the other day i fired my S8 BC (s4 actually as he was braced) at a closing mars within 15 cms without shields. he figured he could do without bracing. after all what are the odds that all of them hit right? ;) he ended up crippled in the first turn!! now like i said the shields were already stipped by something else (ouple of gladius frigates IIRC) but the look on his face was priceless ^_^ to make matters worse he rammed my SC next turn, did no damage and got 4 in return, hulking himself!! yes lots of laughs were had that day....except on the IN side...

Haha, I can imagine. The game can seem awfully tedious when cursed with a string of poor rolling. Ah, well, such is the fate of war(gaming).

 

... seeing them as fancy marines lances should get you the right mindset on how to employ them :D

That makes sense. I'll be sure to keep that in mind next time I play (hopefully soon).

 

oh and i think weve all been on the "ship explodes takes half my fleet with it" boat... in one of our first games it quite literally did that and then some... an exploding (tyrant i think?) took down, 4 gladius, 3 hunters, 2 novas and a SC and crippled a 2nd... all because we thought that if you fail the first brace test (which i did :P ) you cant take any further....dont let anyone tell you that, because its rubbish :lol:

:blink:

 

Wow, compared to what happened then, I guess I really shouldn't be complaining. That explosion would have wiped my current fleet right off the table. I'll be sure to remember this bit about the brace tests as well. Looking back at my first BFG game, I can see a lot of mistakes were made, and not just in terms of tactics. :sweat:

 

Just a few more questions to any who'd care to answer before I let this thread die and sink into obscurity.

 

The first question has to do with BFG bases; I've seen quite a few fleets online based on, what I am assuming, are Forgeworld bases. Where can I buy a fair number of these bases? Do they come in excess when you order off of Forgeworld or do most people just buy them off some bits site?

 

The second question is on ordnance and comes in two parts. Firstly, how are they fired? I may have missed this, but the rulebook online doesn't seem to give me a clear cut answer on what the exact limitations are on placing, say, a torpedo barage. I know it has to be to the ship's front if its says so on the profile, but does it have to be dead center or can it be placed anywhere along the ship's base as long as it remains in the front arc and in base-to-base contact? Also, the second part has to do with the torpedo markers. On the GW site, they give you a fair number of printable markers in a barage of six torpedos; am I stuck having to carefully section and cut the barage in order to have access to more versatile markers or is there another way to do this?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read.

[Vaaish]

The first question has to do with BFG bases;

 

Forgeworld doesn't make BFG bases. Most of what you see are either scratch built or from other companies. You could check out the specialist games forums, but it would help to see a pic of the base you are looking for to tell you where it came from :D

 

The second question is on ordnance and comes in two parts. Firstly, how are they fired? I may have missed this, but the rulebook online doesn't seem to give me a clear cut answer on what the exact limitations are on placing, say, a torpedo barage.

 

Torpedoes can be launched anywhere within their firing arc so long as the entire marker stays within the arc. Things are bit more complex with squadrons tossing out salvos but the same principle holds true. Putting the marker on the base is just a form of reminder that the salvo was launched. Once the ordnance phase hits you place the marker at the final location measuring from the stem of the ships base.

 

The 2010 FAQ changed up how ordnance works somewhat considerably. Instead of having variable size salvos everything is in a 25x25mm base (like the old square epic bases or the printable AC markers from GW) and the salvo size is marked with dice. This amounts to cutting each of the s6 torpedo markers on that sheet in half.

 

A while back I did make a generic torpedo marker you can print from shapeways and paint up. I was trying to get it into resin since the rapid prototype ones were a tad pricey even with $0 markup on the cost, but I don't know if they are ready to produce quite yet.

[Viray]

Forgeworld doesn't make BFG bases. Most of what you see are either scratch built or from other companies. You could check out the specialist games forums, but it would help to see a pic of the base you are looking for to tell you where it came from ;)

These are the bases I was talking (typing?) about:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U70cqWgkLLY/S9MvUb0mwmI/AAAAAAAAAzU/m7bXeKQQ_o8/s400/PICT0188.JPG

I see, or at least I think I see, these bases for BFG quite often when checking out other players' fleets. I figured their ubiquity meant that they were being produced by GW or FW, but I guess that's not the case. I suppose the inquiry that naturally follows this is: do you know where these bases come from? I don't mind the current bases I have, but these just seem so much more appealing.

 

Torpedoes can be launched anywhere within their firing arc so long as the entire marker stays within the arc. Things are bit more complex with squadrons tossing out salvos but the same principle holds true. Putting the marker on the base is just a form of reminder that the salvo was launched. Once the ordnance phase hits you place the marker at the final location measuring from the stem of the ships base.

Ah, that makes sense; thank you. In fact, I'm surprised I didn't see it sooner. It's just that dealing with ordnance is rather new to me; it's so similar to maneuvering your models yet so different.

 

A while back I did make a generic torpedo marker you can print from shapeways and paint up. I was trying to get it into resin since the rapid prototype ones were a tad pricey even with $0 markup on the cost, but I don't know if they are ready to produce quite yet.

Shapeways, huh? I've only recently heard about this site, checking out another forum with a heavy bent on another GW specialist game in fact. Good luck with your 3d modelling; I know it's tough work. :)

[Vaaish]

Those are just regular GW small and large flying bases painted black :yes:

 

Good luck with your 3d modelling; I know it's tough work.

 

Ah... that wasn't the hard part. Making the model is pretty easy, getting it at a price on shapeways that makes it worth it for people who want to buy them is another story completely.

[Viray]

Those are just regular GW small and large flying bases painted black :)

Well, now I feel stupid. B)

 

Oh, well; thank goodness the bases I have now are already good enough for the job.

 

Ah... that wasn't the hard part. Making the model is pretty easy, getting it at a price on shapeways that makes it worth it for people who want to buy them is another story completely.

Heh, really? Well you must be far better at it than I ever was; when I had to do it for a class, everything I made came out cringe-worthy. ;)

 

Anyway, if you're good at the modelling part, I'm sure you will eventually find the right "build" for the model to cut its price to something reasonable (I'm assuming the model's properties, such as detail and size, are what drives the price).

 

... And that just about sums up everything I needed to know about BFG, at least for now. Thanks, you guys, for putting up with my noobishness. Maybe sometime soon I'll be able to put up an entertaining thread on my fleet and its hopefully many exploits.