help against chaos?

[khurdur]

Hey, I've got another tactical challenge: chaos marines. I rarely beat these guys.

 

I play

 

1500p

 

captain-jp, power weapon.(in sang guard)

 

5 sang guard w/chapter banner

sanguinary priest

2x 10 assault marines 2x meltaguns, powerfist

4 attack bikes

3 predators autocannon lascannon sponsons

 

Now, my friend used to play two daemon princes with MoN and waprtime and they would eat me up. Now, however, he take dreadnoughts as warptime has been nerfed.

 

he plays

 

chaos lord(daemon weapon)

2x 5 plague marines-rhinos

8 khorne berzerkers-powerfist, rhino

6 oblits

3 chaos dreads w/ multimeltas

 

That is a lot of firepower.....I can shoot at the dreads with my preds first and will blow up or supress them all, but then his oblits will shoot my preds. the attack bikes will turboboost and then melta the oblits...but if they are in cover not many will die. And to assault, it is iffy to open the rhinos, and the dread will be dangerous if any are still standing. in addition, the lord with his daemon weap strikes at I5 and will take pout half a sqaud guaranteed ! And not to mention any plasma cannon shot fired at my jumpers !

 

Ideas !

[Bat33.1]

I think you may need to look at your list here a little. Nerf the captain and get a Libby for the same points it's a no brainer, in virtually any comp list for BA you will find a Libby in the HQ slot.

 

Maybe it is down to target selection? If the Oblits are giving you the trouble target them first after all your Preds outrange the dreads by 24" so they ain't targetting you for a while. What about deployment? Are you deploying on table if you don't get initiative or are you reserving/deepstriking? A libby will help but otherwise it's hard to say why he's winning so often looking at the two lists, you have a speed advantage with fast preds and bikes

[SnorriSnorrison]

Pretty easy, I'd say. The Dreads have a chance(I think it was 1/6? ) to go mad and shoot their own units. Then, they have MM, and they are dreads. As you mentioned, You can easily take them out with the preds.

But, maybe, just maybe, it might be better to use the Attack bikes to explode the Dreadnoughts, and to take out the Obliterators with your Predators. BtW, if he deepstrikes them, you should go for second turn and reserve so you can countercharge/-shoot them without risking to lose too much armour.

 

You should try to fit in an IP either on the Captain or on the Sanguinary Guard. They need their own weapon to crack open transports to relieve your other anti-tank weapons until the dreads are gone.

That's the first part.

 

 

Now, let's look at your perfect turn.

 

He puts his oblits in reserve. You opt do go second turn if you can. If your opponent let's you go first, I'd reserve or deepstrike the troops. 6 obliterators can ruin your day if played correctly. If you don't want to reserve everything, make sure that you have cover at least( especially the attack bikes).

 

Now his Oblits are not able to do sufficient damage to your tanks/attack bikes and your infantry. Shoot the Oblits or mow them down with your Sanguinary Guard.

His Rhino mounted units are not able to take out your units either in cc or by shooting as long as you have FnP. Concentrate on the dreads and prepare for the final assault, it is even better yet if you manage to take out the Dreads and the Rhinos in one turn.

His troops are fearless, so you can shoot them until there's only a few guys left.

 

 

In assault, nothing should stand in your way, so I won't go into that. Maybe the Lord. Your Captain has initiative 6 with FC and 6 attacks, probably enough to take out the Chaos Lord!

 

Make sure to always have FnP, FC if you assault.

 

 

 

Well, that is all. His list is not very hard, and you definitely have the potential to beat him every game. Good luck!

 

 

Snorri

[khurdur]

yeah i know the libby is better but he won't do so much against this list. No psychic powers to block. And I like captians more they are more thematic!

Oblits are always hidden behind the rhinos, so they will always get the first shot.

 

they are usually deployed like this

R-rhino

D-dreadnought

O-0blits

 

 

D.........D...........D

R.........R...........R

O.........O..........O

 

 

true outranging him with my lascannons will help!

the oblits start behind the rhino and then move to shoot, usually into cover. They can outshoot the preds !

I dont htink he'll deepstrike the oblits; I wouldn't, a waste of good units !

[khurdur]

the dreads have been faq'ed. if they roll a one, they shoot at the closest unit in their 45 degree front arc twice with every weapon. They are in the front, so if they go crzy they fire they lascannon or multipmetla twice at my nearest unit. If they roll a six they don't shoot and fleet at my nearest unit. If they don't put a unit in front of the dread they will fire frenzy me!

[SnorriSnorrison]

You have 6 lascannons and 4 MM. He has at best 6 lascannons and 3 MM. Yours are more mobile and resilient, so use that speed to outmaneuvre him!

 

Take out the Oblits first, if you wish. Speed up with the attack bikes in cover and 24". He will fire at you, but you should survive, especially if you can block LoS with terrain *hint*.

 

While the attack bikes go for the Oblits, the Preds can take out the Dreads. Again, you got 6 lascannons and 3 autocannons for that! Should be an easy task.

I'd really ignore the rhinos. They are no threat in any way.

 

Didn't knew that about the Dreads' FaQ...doesn't matter, there's still a chance they won't shoot at all. I mean, how often do you successfully roll for Red Thirst? :D

 

 

Snorri

[khurdur]

while the bikes are turboboosting though he can shoot the oblits at the preds. With six shots, he can easily supress or even wrecka couple....any vehicle damage roll will hurt them

[Dunnaeph34rn473]

yeah i know the libby is better but he won't do so much against this list. No psychic powers to block. And I like captians more they are more thematic!

 

Actually a librarian would be very helpful against his list. If you take a librarian with shield and run him near your predators you can give them a 5++ save against his obliterators for a turn.

 

So if you go first and the attack bikes aren't within range to fire at the obliterators turbo boost them into position giving them a 3++ to whether his shooting, meanwhile pop the dreads with your predators. Then on his turn have the librarian cast shield and make your predators 33% more difficult to hurt. You should be able to whether his obliterators for a turn with shield and still have 2 left. Once your turn comes again the attack bikes move in to take out the obliterators and the game is pretty much in hand at that point.

 

You can also use your assault squads as meat shields for your predators, jump them in front so they provide a 4++ cover save. He still probably will try to target your predators leaving your RAS safe.

 

Captains just don't offer the sort of utility a librarian would that makes it much easier to succeed against a list like his.

[khurdur]

are assault marines tall enough to give a predator a cover save? I was under the impression they aren't.....they have to cover 50% of its height

[the jeske]

he has no hood or hood like thing and he doesnt have DP to counter big stuff. mefison could take a huge chunk of his army .

[Emperors Immortals]

I reluctantly agree...Mephiston is a great answer here.

 

ALternativly, i would swap out SG for a DC in rhino (or HB back) and sterngaurd in pod, to tie up one dread/rhino up close (take that havoc dread and PM plasmas!!!)

 

A Baal pred in there woudl be ace, but i would personally look at fitting a SR in there - flying circus style!!

 

 

Let us know your results.

[Dunnaeph34rn473]

are assault marines tall enough to give a predator a cover save? I was under the impression they aren't.....they have to cover 50% of its height

 

With their jump packs, I'd say they are. Even if they aren't the 5++ shield will help significantly.