Since there is no more "True Grit"...

[brainwashed]

I've gone back and am adding to an old Space Wolf army I've pulled out of storage and am building up some of the new (to me) Gray Hunters. I'm pumped to finally have some nice looking bolter and CCW Gray Hunters and have been building up a 10 man pack with Bolters and the new cool looking Space Wolf chain swords, and then realized that they don't have True Grit anymore in the current edition of the rules.

 

There's no reason to build them up with the chain sword other than to look cool. :D

 

I always wanted to build my Gray Hunters with the CCW back in Third Edition so that they were WYSIWYG on the table, and now that these great bits are included in the box, we don't need them do we? I should have used the chain swords on Blood Claws instead. Blast.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Thanks!

[Warbringer]

To be honest the chainsword is no different in the current ruleset to a close combat weapon so in my opinion its perfectly wysiwyg to have chainsword and bolt pistol in the same squad as bolters they come with all three :D

[JamesI]

Grey hunters still have their chainsword. They're actually better now without true grit than they were before because they always have the +1 attack for 2 weapons as well as the bolter.

[Russ Brother 92]

I have modeled around 15-20 of my 40 GHs with Boltgun/Chainsword a)it looks awesome and b)they can still fire them as per normal, just that if they get charged after using the Bolters they won't get the extra +1A for 2 CCWs whereas they will if they fire BPs - I've never had a problem so far and it looks wayy cooler to have a marine aiming a bolter with chainsword in hand compared to simply a pistol.

 

Although it does mean that any I have left over along with my many many pistols means I can just buy some more torsos and legs and use them as BCs (I normally use plain legs/torsos just so they're different and not far into the culture of the Aett).

[Wulfebane]

For the Grey Hunters that I build now (post-5E), I model them with only bolters, no bolt pistols even though they come equipped. Occasionally, I'll give them a ccw like a chainsword or axe (or the power weapon option), but since Blood Claws don't have the option of a bolter, I've decided to segregate my models by more than pack markings to identify GH from BC.

[brainwashed]

Grey hunters still have their chainsword. They're actually better now without true grit than they were before because they always have the +1 attack for 2 weapons as well as the bolter.

 

 

They do? So do all Space Marine have this stat line or only the Grey Hunters? I'm confused. :D

[Karack Blackstone]

Just to note, from talking with a GW employee,

 

- GH's may either fire BP or BG in the shooting phase, AND then can use BP and CCW/Chainswords in the Assault phase.

- GH's get all three of the following: bolt pistol (BP), Boltgun (BG), and a CCW (Chainsword) for free.

- Options in the SW Codex allow for switching some items out: Getting one GH a MG (Meltagun) means they trade in their BG and get the MG instead. They retain their base attacks in the Assault phase of selecting their BP + CCW, should you the controlling player choose to do so.

[AdeptusDavidus]

They do? So do all Space Marine have this stat line or only the Grey Hunters? I'm confused. :)

 

Grey Hunters have boltgun, bolt pistol, and close-combat weapon, and off the top of my head the only other SM unit similarly equipped is the Honour Guard from the regular Space Marines codex. (I may very well be mistaken about this.)

[brainwashed]

Grey hunters still have their chainsword. They're actually better now without true grit than they were before because they always have the +1 attack for 2 weapons as well as the bolter.

 

 

They do? So do all Space Marine have this stat line or only the Grey Hunters? I'm confused. :P

 

Ah-ha! I just noticed that normal marines do not have the "close combat weapon" listed on their weapons, where Grey hunters do. Is that where the +1 attack is coming from that others are referring to

 

So the Gray Hunters have +1 attack in close combat for having 2 CCW's? Damn ... that + Counter Attack when they are charged is huge!

 

Quick edit: Thanks AdeptusDavidus. I saw your reply after I posted this. :)

[Arez]

So the Gray Hunters have +1 attack in close combat for having 2 CCW's? Damn ... that + Counter Attack when they are charged is huge!

BC get 1 base +1 for CCW +2 on the charge times that by 15 :P they are better at assaulting then GH :)

[Karack Blackstone]

So the Gray Hunters have +1 attack in close combat for having 2 CCW's? Damn ... that + Counter Attack when they are charged is huge!

BC get 1 base +1 for CCW +2 on the charge times that by 15 :D they are better at assaulting then GH ;)

 

BC's require a Wolf Priest most of the time to get the most use out of their dice on the charge.

 

BC's may have four dice on the charge, but odds are good against MEQ they will be getting hit on 3's due to their slightly lower WS when compared to GH's. GH's are just fine either rapid firing and counter-assaulting, or firing BP's and charging should the enemy gain too much from getting the charge off. This does assume that a charge option is possible; if not, rapid fire, counter-charge, and go to town.

[brainwashed]

I'm planning on having my Blood Claws lead by my Wolf Priest. I wish they would come out with a new Wolf Priest model with Ulric's great helmet. ;)

[fivepointedstar]

How is that SW don't get subject to the rule that states if one fires in the shooting phase by rapid fire/ heavy weapon they are not allowed to assault in next phase... From what I'm reading above you all are saying SW come auto with relentless.

Which they do not!. Terminators and bikers do. GH do not!. And so there-for if you shoot in the shooting phase with rapid fire/ heavy weapons you are not allowed to assault unless firing with pistol or assault weapon. I understand that its in there stats.. but they are still subject to rules of wargear. That option is for allowing for versatility of battle. As the SW can use rapid fire bolters in shooting phase. Or fire with pistol/ assault weapon then charge into melee with pistol/ CCW.

[Wulfebane]

How is that SW don't get subject to the rule that states if one fires in the shooting phase by rapid fire/ heavy weapon they are not allowed to assault in next phase... From what I'm reading above you all are saying SW come auto with relentless.

Which they do not!. Terminators and bikers do. GH do not!. And so there-for if you shoot in the shooting phase with rapid fire/ heavy weapons you are not allowed to assault unless firing with pistol or assault weapon. I understand that its in there stats.. but they are still subject to rules of wargear. That option is for allowing for versatility of battle. As the SW can use rapid fire bolters in shooting phase. Or fire with pistol/ assault weapon then charge into melee with pistol/ CCW.

 

Yes and no. I'll quote Karak's post before explaining:

 

- GH's may either fire BP or BG in the shooting phase, AND then can use BP and CCW/Chainswords in the Assault phase.

 

You are correct that GHs cannot fire their bolters (rapid fire) in Shooting and then charge in the Assault phase. However, they CAN stand their ground and rapid fire, then receive a charge, where they would, in turn, switch to their bolt pistol and ccw, gaining the +1 attack as well as the potential counterattack. Just because they can potentially use all three weapons in a given turn does not mean that they themselves are the ones initiating the assault. No one in this thread (unless I missed it) has said you can fire your bolters and charge into combat. There's a distinction between Charging and Entering the Assault phase.

 

tl;dr: GHs can fire their boltguns in the Shooting phase, but cannot charge. Alternately, they may fire their bolt pistols and then can charge. Either way, in the Assault phase, they count as having 2x CCWs.

[fivepointedstar]

How is that SW don't get subject to the rule that states if one fires in the shooting phase by rapid fire/ heavy weapon they are not allowed to assault in next phase... From what I'm reading above you all are saying SW come auto with relentless.

Which they do not!. Terminators and bikers do. GH do not!. And so there-for if you shoot in the shooting phase with rapid fire/ heavy weapons you are not allowed to assault unless firing with pistol or assault weapon. I understand that its in there stats.. but they are still subject to rules of wargear. That option is for allowing for versatility of battle. As the SW can use rapid fire bolters in shooting phase. Or fire with pistol/ assault weapon then charge into melee with pistol/ CCW.

 

Yes and no. I'll quote Karak's post before explaining:

 

- GH's may either fire BP or BG in the shooting phase, AND then can use BP and CCW/Chainswords in the Assault phase.

 

You are correct that GHs cannot fire their bolters (rapid fire) in Shooting and then charge in the Assault phase. However, they CAN stand their ground and rapid fire, then receive a charge, where they would, in turn, switch to their bolt pistol and ccw, gaining the +1 attack as well as the potential counterattack. Just because they can potentially use all three weapons in a given turn does not mean that they themselves are the ones initiating the assault. No one in this thread (unless I missed it) has said you can fire your bolters and charge into combat. There's a distinction between Charging and Entering the Assault phase.

 

tl;dr: GHs can fire their boltguns in the Shooting phase, but cannot charge. Alternately, they may fire their bolt pistols and then can charge. Either way, in the Assault phase, they count as having 2x CCWs.

That makes sence. I read incorrect. :wallbash: With the counter charge rule once passed they get +1 attack.

[brainwashed]

How is that SW don't get subject to the rule that states if one fires in the shooting phase by rapid fire/ heavy weapon they are not allowed to assault in next phase... From what I'm reading above you all are saying SW come auto with relentless.

Which they do not!. Terminators and bikers do. GH do not!. And so there-for if you shoot in the shooting phase with rapid fire/ heavy weapons you are not allowed to assault unless firing with pistol or assault weapon. I understand that its in there stats.. but they are still subject to rules of wargear. That option is for allowing for versatility of battle. As the SW can use rapid fire bolters in shooting phase. Or fire with pistol/ assault weapon then charge into melee with pistol/ CCW.

 

Yes and no. I'll quote Karak's post before explaining:

 

- GH's may either fire BP or BG in the shooting phase, AND then can use BP and CCW/Chainswords in the Assault phase.

 

You are correct that GHs cannot fire their bolters (rapid fire) in Shooting and then charge in the Assault phase. However, they CAN stand their ground and rapid fire, then receive a charge, where they would, in turn, switch to their bolt pistol and ccw, gaining the +1 attack as well as the potential counterattack. Just because they can potentially use all three weapons in a given turn does not mean that they themselves are the ones initiating the assault. No one in this thread (unless I missed it) has said you can fire your bolters and charge into combat. There's a distinction between Charging and Entering the Assault phase.

 

tl;dr: GHs can fire their boltguns in the Shooting phase, but cannot charge. Alternately, they may fire their bolt pistols and then can charge. Either way, in the Assault phase, they count as having 2x CCWs.

 

Nicely said. That helped me as well. :P

[Valerian]

I have modeled around 15-20 of my 40 GHs with Boltgun/Chainsword a)it looks awesome and b)they can still fire them as per normal, just that if they get charged after using the Bolters they won't get the extra +1A for 2 CCWs whereas they will if they fire BPs...

 

This is incorrect, 92, they would get the +1 Attack for having a pistol plus CCW when charged, regardless which weapon they've fired earlier in the turn. Then, if they pass an Ld check, they would get another attack (total of 3) for a successful counterattack.

 

Valerian

[Russ Brother 92]

I have modeled around 15-20 of my 40 GHs with Boltgun/Chainsword a)it looks awesome and b)they can still fire them as per normal, just that if they get charged after using the Bolters they won't get the extra +1A for 2 CCWs whereas they will if they fire BPs...

 

This is incorrect, 92, they would get the +1 Attack for having a pistol plus CCW when charged, regardless which weapon they've fired earlier in the turn. Then, if they pass an Ld check, they would get another attack (total of 3) for a successful counterattack.

 

Valerian

 

fair enough - thanks haha just means I get even more attacks than I thought :o

 

Russ