DarkLiege Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Reserve for the final project (if I make it this far :)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 This goes back to the whole 'New Chapter, New Concept' that is on this forum. I'm coming back to this after a while since Destecado and I had a discussion a while back. Here is the link to the post: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...=242447&hl= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2995772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 This goes back to the whole 'New Chapter, New Concept' that is on this forum. I'm coming back to this after a while since Destecado and I had a discussion a while back. Here is the outline for the chapter. Tell me what you think of it. Origins: •26 Founding; Ultramaines Geneseeds •“Let the Great Hunt Begin!”—Battle Cry before a battle •Each fleet has a different battlecry •Don’t really care about the men of the Imperuim but instead in the “sport of hunting” Interesting start, I like the idea. Homeworld: •Fleet Based Chapter •Have outposts in various Death Worlds. •Stationed in Ultramar Segmentum •Recruits from tribes of Hunter/Gatherers in Death Worlds •Each Fleet is named after a mythical beast (Ex. Cerberus, Orthus, Hydra, etc..) Hm. Two things: 'Each Fleet' implies more than one. Is this a bloated Chapter, or does each Company or collection of Companies sport its own fleet? Keep in mind that having minimal Naval capabilities is one of the bigger counters to Space Marine power set forth by the Codex. A couple Battle-Barges, half a dozen Strike Cruisers, myriad escort frigates. Fleet-based tend to have the upper ends of those numbers, though. Secondly, I like the idea of the names, but be careful not to step on Tyranid toes. Each Hive Fleet is named after a mythical beast as well, such as Behemoth and Leviathan. Combat Doctrine: •Shows up to engaged enemies and disappear as fast as they appear. •Not in it for medal and Honor •Uses fast attack craft(mostly Bikes) to confuse the enemies and to decapitated the enemies as quick as possible •Marines wields a various array of weapons for different purpose •Passes by strategic/ tactical importance to engaged enemies Tad unorthodox as far as the Codex goes, though that's not a bad thing. But I am curious, what is their guiding ideal if not glory and honor? If it's all about the hunt and taking out the enemy, then it very much is about glory and honor. Beliefs: •Xenos > Chaos •Wants to master the art of killing (I know marines do this already but its more to the extent of perfecting it in a similar fashion as the Emperor’s Children) Xenos is greater than Chaos meaning what exactly? Xenos is a preferred enemy over Chaos, or Xenos are better than Chaos? Having an Emperor's Children level of obsession over perfecting the hunting and killing of the enemy is a pretty cool idea. Organizations: •The Three Fates (Master Librarians) recruiting purposes. They are known to the chapters as Aranea •Fleet based chapter •Organized into squads instead of the whole company thing (similar to the Iron Snakes organization) •Each squad consist of a tactical, a assault, a devastator, a scout The Aranea remind me a bit of the Prognisticators of the Silver Skulls, might want to look into them for some inspiration. The squad load-out is . . . odd. I'm not the best person to give advice for this, but is that even possible in any codex? You can load out Tactical Squads with melee and heavy weapons, just not the extent that Assault or Devastator squads can. Not so sure about how the scouts would do. If you're looking for the idea of them being recruits training with a squad, you can take a page from the Space Wolves and say that recruits are fully power armored rather wearing scout armor. Then you could have a Tactical squad as normal, just fluffed out to say that certain squadmates are recruits. As for the Squad over the Company organization, it is an interesting one, and one that made the Iron Snakes really stand out. But the Iron Snakes had a single world, and one Fortress-Monastery, that the whole of the Chapter revolved around. If your Chapter is fleet-based, and spread among more than one fleet, it's already rather divided up a bit, isn't it? Maybe instead of making it squad-oriented or company-oriented, you simply make it Fleet-oriented. Each Fleet is self-sufficient and operates as a mini-Chapter. Like for example, let's say you have 2nd Fleet, which has three hundred Marines. Instead of 2nd Fleet being made up of three Companies, you could have it be thirty Squads, with three or more high-ranking leaders who pick and choose from among Squads of their Fleet for each battle. Based on Greek Mythology. Any Feedbacks is welcome. See above for my point by point comments. All in all, I like the idea of this Chapter. I'll withhold any further opinions or feedback until it's fleshed out a little more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2995900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Re: The Aranea DarkLeige IIRC, you were considering having the Aranea be somehow related to spiders or use such imagery in relation to the master Librarians. If you still want to go in that direction, that’s great, but if you are interested, I think I might have an alternate concept you may wish to consider. Hollinar I’m still working on the name, but Hollin is Spanish for soot, the black powdery substance produced during the burning of materials, such as coal, wood, etc. Since the chapter concept is based around hunters, my thought was that their forms of divination might somehow be tied to the animals that they kill (possibly even humans). They might begin by using divination of an animal’s entrails. Various organs, such as eyes, heart and even bone, might be burnt or charred over a fire and divination of the manner in which the organs burn, including the smoke patterns they give off could garner further insights. A blade may even be held in the smoke so that the smoke 9soot) patterns left behind could also be read. Not all of these aspects need to be included, but it does provide broader latitude. It might even be possible to include the ritual practice of smudging. This could be used to cleanse individuals or even purify weapons. The ceremony is usually done with plants, but maybe the Chapter includes the burning of certain parts of the animal to purify or enhance an object or person, believing that the smoke somehow imparts the attributes (strength, ferocity, guile, etc) or protection of the animal to the weapon, equipment or person. Dual Role I possible point of consideration is the position of Chaplains within the chapter. Could the role of the Chaplain be merged into that of the Librarian, in a similar way that the Iron Hands combine the function of techmarine and chaplain into the postion of Iron fathers? If not combined, then the interaction between the two groups might be more integrated than what is seen in other chapters. Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2996153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Dual Role I possible point of consideration is the position of Chaplains within the chapter. Could the role of the Chaplain be merged into that of the Librarian, in a similar way that the Iron Hands combine the function of techmarine and chaplain into the postion of Iron fathers? If not combined, then the interaction between the two groups might be more integrated than what is seen in other chapters. Any thoughts? I'm thinking of having the librarian and chaplains together as that would fit into the chapter a bit. The role might be called Sage or something around this line. I like the idea of using entrails as it is a lot riskier than looking into the whole warp thing and getting your mind messed around with. This is a safer route to go. I might just use it instead of the spider. @Cormac Art: thanks for the fast feedback and very much appreciated it. I will think about the Organization and the advice that you gave me. As for the Whole 'Xeno>Chaos' thing, I was thinking that they hunt Xenos more that they do Chaos. They view Xenos as a much large threat than Chaos does. I was thinking of having them be formed/ created from some of the Veterans of the first Tyrannic War against Behemoth. A group of them thinks that this is only the beginning of the tyranid threat/onslaught. The high lords of terra also think so, so they have a part of the veterans create a new chapter to hunt down the remaining tyranids' infestations. So what do you think of this development? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2996263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Maybe Oracles? The religious figures that could see the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2996454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Maybe Oracles? The religious figures that could see the future. I can really see the name Oracles working for the whole Librarian/Chaplains thing. the problem with that is, if I'm not mistaking, Oracles are usually women? Thanks for the feedback, Will think about it some more. :yes: Here are some images/color schemes of the Sons of Orion: Tell me which one you think goes with the chapter? :tu: Also trying to find a Chapter symbol. http://i43.tinypic.com/qrjdwp.jpghttp://i42.tinypic.com/2cpowty.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/2h3x2k2.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2996992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Oracles I’m not sure if Oracles are usually women, but the name might be a bit too mundane. What about associating them with owls (Strigidae)? In mythology, owls are associated with wisdom. They are also associated with prophecy, supernatural knowledge and divination. Associated with hunting…Humans have employed animals to assist in their hunting since pre-historic times. The abilities and senses of these predators are harnessed by hunters to track or actually take down their quarry. Although the practice of falconry would seem to indicate that this training and hunting technique is only associated with falcons, other raptors, such as eagles and at least two species of owls are also employed. The ability to read omens or see possible future events could be viewed in a similar fashion to the heightened senses of animals, which hunters use to their benefit. The comparison to owls struck me, when I was working on an older (second edition) Librarian miniature. The rounded curve of the psychic hood, with its pointed crest, looks a little like the face of an owl. It reminded me of an old rhyme… A wise old owl lived in an oak The more he saw the less he spoke The less he spoke the more he heard. Why can't we all be like that wise old bird? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2999565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I like the whole hunting with animals as companions theme as well as the Chaplain/Librarians being Strigidae? Destecado Well anyway, the chapter instead of having live animals maybe they could 'built' their own as in a mechanical animals like wolves, owls, and such. Each marines are accompany into battle with their 'animal'. Going by the whole smoke/ smudging thing, I was also think it could be part of their belief, in that before a battle, the marines cleanse themselves with smoke to purify their body. they also thinks that by purifying themselves the Emperor could/is protecting them keeping the lure of Chaos away from them. The Chaplain/Librarians could use the smoke the same way of purifying their body before having their prophecy in the same sense that marines does before battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-2999736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 How about the Chapter believed in spirits of the wild taken from their many homeworlds of recruitment? they believed in three powerful spirits: Wolves: They teach the hunters to use strategies and help them rely upon each others to help finish a 'hunt'. This spirit also teaches the hunters the thrill of combat. Ravens: They teach the hunters about knowledge and trickery. Teaching the hunters how to outsmart their prey. Bears: This spirit teaches the hunters about strength, honor. Above all of these spirits the marines revel the Emperor as the greatest hunter that ever lived and also they believed that the emperor is all of the spirits in disguises. What do you guys think of this? I took the three spirits from the game: Guild Wars 2. The Spirits are more like guides to the marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3001303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 How about the Chapter believed in spirits of the wild taken from their many homeworlds of recruitment? they believed in three powerful spirits: I don’t think that you should limit yourself to just three. If they believe in spirits, why stop at just three? The spirits could even be divided into groups. Rauxa: Spirits of the wild. These could be animal spirits of spirits of nature itself. Menes Spirits of the dead, that can be called upon for aid. I’m still working on names for other groupings of spirits, but just wanted to provide a little more information about the above names. Rauxa is a Catalan term for the wild spontaneous nature (passion) within Catalan culture. The name Menes means “he who endures”. I chose it for its connotation of continuing on even after death. This could either be as an actual spirit that can manifest or just enduring in the memories of loved one or for our purposes brethren of the Sons of Orion. The other reason for choosing the name was for its similarity to Manes, ancestor spirits of the pre-Christian Roman religion. My thought was that such spirits might be able to manifest. Within 40k, there are accounts of what the viewers have reported as saints or fallen heroes showing up in their hour of need to assist them in battle. There is also the Sanguinar from the Blood Angels, who may or may not be a physical being. I am reminded of the scene from the original Conan the Barbarian (with “Ahnold”) where a blade intercepts Rexor's killing blow and then strikes him across the face, temporarily blinding him. Conan looks up from the ground in disbelief, to see Valeria in all her shining glory. She smiles and asks him “Do you want to live forever?” Conan turns to retrieve his blade and when he looks back Valeria is gone. For those not familiar with the movie, Valeria had been killed earlier by Thulsa Doom. I like the whole hunting with animals as companions theme as well as the Chaplain/Librarians being Strigidae? Destecado Well anyway, the chapter instead of having live animals maybe they could 'built' their own as in a mechanical animals like wolves, owls, and such. Each marines are accompany into battle with their 'animal'. Maybe these mechanical animals use something similar to a machine spirit. It could be that the Librarians and Techmarines of the chapter work together to create them. Not sure if that would be considered heresy by the Adeptus Mechanics. It could be that they create the physical form for the animal spirit to inhabit, but they don’t force it into the mechanism. Again though, this might be skating close to the edge of heresy, being very similar to possession, which is the territory of Chaos. Still, there might be enough ambiguity to slip under the radar of the Inquisition. Any reason that you don’t want to actual living animals? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3005199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 @Destecado Thanks for all your help as always. I don't think there is any reason why i don't want to have actual animals instead of machine creation of them. I guess the reason why is because there will be a few questions about the animals like are they tamed in their homeland? what happens if they die? and so forth. Edit: The whole selecting a new Captain to led the fleet could be a result as to how a stormseers decides a new Great Khan. The whole process is unknown only to those that 'pass' the test yet even they can't tell what is happening inside. The Librarian/Chaplain I'm thinking could be called Storm Priest? The chapter does not have TDA as they think it only slow down their mobility yet they have a few Dreadnoughts. Althought, the dreadnoughts are used as advisers than combat dreads. @Destecado: I like the ideas of having spirits of the dead. The reason why they do not have so much dreads could well be that they honor their dead battle brothers and thinks they still fight alongside them in battle. By placing a marine in Dread, their soul could not be release or something like that. As for the Spirits of the animals, Rauxa, Each of the fleet could have totems in one of the room dedicated to them. So what do you think of this? Also, is it possible for a ultramarine successor chapter have the first Tyrannic War veterans as their training cadres? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3005616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Took down the old outline. Revised version of the outline: Origins: •26 Founding; Ultramaines Geneseeds •Don’t really care about the men of the Imperuim but instead in the “sport of hunting” •Pretty good relationship with the inquisition (marines sent to the Deathwatch) •Experts trackers since they are recruited from a hunter/gatherer tribes •Marines sees it as an honor to service in the Deathwatch Homeworld: •Fleet Based Chapter •Have outposts in various Death Worlds. •Stationed in Ultramar Segmentum •Recruits from tribes of Hunter/Gatherers in Death Worlds •Each Fleet is named after a mythical beast (Ex. Cerberus, Orthus, Hydra, etc..) Combat Doctrine: •Shows up to engaged enemies and disappear as fast as they appear. •Marines wields a set of melee weapons •Passes by strategic/tactical importance to engaged enemies •Wants to master the art of killing (I know marines do this already but its more to the extent of perfecting it in a similar fashion as the Emperor’s Children) •Marines joins Deathwatch •Hit and Run; Guerilla warfare •Knowledge is power (storing textbooks on the different Xenos) Beliefs: •Xenos > Chaos •Rubs smokes over their armor and body, purifying it (Emperor’s protection against the lure of Chaos •‘Spirits of the wild’ ‘Spirits of the Dead’ (Taken and developed from their recruiting worlds) •Their brothers fight alongside them even in death Organizations: •Librarians/Chaplain uses bones and intestines of enemies to 'determine' the chapter's course of action. They are known to the chapters as Strigidae. •Fleet based chapter •Each fleet consist of a mini-chapter, usually around 30 squads of marines with two or three captains commanding a fleet. •Scouts/ new recruits are placed into the same squad with full battle brothers (this way they could learn from their elders and they would not take all the glory for themselves) •Few Dreadnoughts (Acts as Advisers to the captains) •Totems on each of the fleets (Totems dedicated to the Spirits of the wild) Battle Cry: •Each Fleet has their own battle cries Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3007539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sounds cool, but these guys seem to fit Khan's seed better Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3007685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destecado Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Organizations:The Three Fates (Master Librarians) recruiting purposes. They are known to the chapters as Aranea Were you not going with the Strigidae (owl) concept for the librarians? Again, the ideas of masters of fate seems to stray into the direction of Tzeentch and the Fateweaver. Were you dead set on using the spider concept? What about replacing webs with nets, or at least the idea of casting out nets? This could be tied into the concepts of net fishing or even objects such as the dream catcher and spirit catchers. Loegren – Shadow Casters The Logren don’t really see the future. The future is not set. There are a multitude of choices that could change the outcome. It would be similar to a navigator guiding a ship safely through the warp, by feeling the (warp) currents and eddies and choosing the safest path. As in navigation, there is no single correct path. Some may be fraught with greater perils, while offering rewards (faster transit time). The future similarly has no single correct path. The weight of events or interactions of certain individuals may make a possible outcome more probable than others, but the future is malleable. The name Loegren come from The Logrus from the Chronicles of Amber series. The Logrus is a shifting, three-dimensional maze which represents the forces of Chaos in the multiverse. In this case, it represents the shifting patterns of the future. Shadow Casters comes from Plato’s Allegory of the Cave. It provides a fairly good analogy of how a psyker interprets our reality and interacts with those who are still “shackled” in the cave (normal people). If that explanation is too esoteric, then perhaps the name is derived from a cultural reference. Given the state of technology within the populations from which the Chapter draws its recruits, it is possible that Shadow Plays may be a form of mass entertainment within the various tribes. Shadow casters, might be the term used for the puppeteers who manipulate the articulated figures used in this form of storytelling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3008382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Organizations:The Three Fates (Master Librarians) recruiting purposes. They are known to the chapters as Aranea Were you not going with the Strigidae (owl) concept for the librarians? Again, the ideas of masters of fate seems to stray into the direction of Tzeentch and the Fateweaver. Were you dead set on using the spider concept? What about replacing webs with nets, or at least the idea of casting out nets? This could be tied into the concepts of net fishing or even objects such as the dream catcher and spirit catchers. I kinda forgotten to edit that part out of the organization and changing it to Strigidaes. Sorry about that. I'm still going with the idea of smudging and using bones of enemies and such to 'determine' a course of action within the chapter. Edit: The issue above has been fixed. Sorry for the misunderstanding that I might have cause. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247418-sons-of-orionscions-of-orion/#findComment-3008479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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