Carcharodon vs. Chaos

[Brother Saturnus]

Tomorrow morning my 1250 Carcharodon force will face off against the Black Legion. I'm curious if any one has some advice on how to deal with the OP4.

 

What I have at my disposal:

 

Tyberos the Red wake with x5 terminators (w/ claws who count as troop.)

 

Contemptor Dred w/ plasma cannon.

 

Chaplain Ivanus Enkomi ( +2 attacks for squad when assault / powerfist) with x5 tactical marines all with Chainsword/ bolt pistol and a teleporthomer in a razorback with ExAr.

 

x5 scout snipers with camo cloaks and a teleporthomer in a landspeeder storm.

 

x5 devestators w/ lascannon, heavybolter, x2 missile launchers in a razorback.

 

I also have the rules furious charge for chapter tactics and rage after first won assault with the unit tha

won.

 

 

What he has ( roughly)

 

Slaneshi Demon Prince with warp time and wings.

 

Chaos dred with heavy bolter and heavy flamer.

 

Thousand suns x6 with spells (bolt of change?) in a rhino.

 

Chaos marines x10 w/ power weapon / flamer/ heavybolter in a rhino.

 

Obliteraters x3

 

Chaos predator x2 w/ heavybolter sponsons.

 

 

I'm not sure initiative or game type. The game board will be craters and little walls, maybe a ruin or two.

His heavysupport is worrisome when my anti armor is so little... Any advice?

[Hellios]

Slaneshi Demon Prince with warp time and wings.

 

Chaos dred with heavy bolter and heavy flamer.

 

Thousand suns x6 with spells (bolt of change?) in a rhino.

 

Chaos marines x10 w/ power weapon / flamer/ heavybolter in a rhino.

 

Obliteraters x3

 

Chaos predator x2 w/ heavybolter sponsons.

 

If you didn't already play it this way remember the new chaos faq says you have to re-roll all dice with warp time not just the failed ones. Prices are tough but an ideal target for the snipers. Ideally kill it or put a few wounds on it before it hits you.

 

 

Chaos dreads fire power isn't that much of an issue unless he keeps getting fire frenzy at one of your units he wants to hurt... However damaging it before it gets into combat wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

1ksons are a pain with ap3 and a force weapon but not great. If he shoots your terminators awesome but not ideal for combat... The sorcerer can cause some harm (especially to tybros) if you are not careful and they can also tarpit you for longer than you would like. The extra attacks on the chaplains squad should help a lot while the transport should protect them from ap3.

 

If you can get into combat Tybros and friends should eat the CSM...

 

As for his heavy support... lascannons is great for popping oblits... ML give them saves but can still cause ID... Tybros will kill oblits in combat but you need to survive long enough. Plasma cannon on the dread might also cause a couple of wounds...

 

That being said your devs are needed to pop his armour unless your razorback or LS storm have any anti-armour weapons.

[Panda_]

You shouldn't have problems at all. Your list seems much more powerful in every way.

[DarkGuard]

The only issue with your list I can think of is the Dev squad. Never mix weapons unless they are complementary, ie. lascannon and missile launcher is fine, heavy bolter and plasma cannon is fine, but heavy bolter and lascannon isn't. Focus that unit, so drop the heavy bolter for another missile launcher and you'll be better equipped for his army.

 

LSS is a waste of points with snipers, and you have little scoring presence with only 10 bodies, which will be an issue for objective games, especially when he has 50% more scoring bodies than you, and his Oblits can and will blow your scoring units away if given the chance.

 

That being said you should be fine, try and take his scoring units out first, strand him in his own half, and remember what Hellios told you about Warptime, if you feel he might contest the point print off the FAQ and bring it with you.

[Hellios]

The only issue with your list I can think of is the Dev squad. Never mix weapons unless they are complementary, ie. lascannon and missile launcher is fine, heavy bolter and plasma cannon is fine, but heavy bolter and lascannon isn't. Focus that unit, so drop the heavy bolter for another missile launcher and you'll be better equipped for his army.

 

LSS is a waste of points with snipers, and you have little scoring presence with only 10 bodies, which will be an issue for objective games, especially when he has 50% more scoring bodies than you, and his Oblits can and will blow your scoring units away if given the chance.

 

That being said you should be fine, try and take his scoring units out first, strand him in his own half, and remember what Hellios told you about Warptime, if you feel he might contest the point print off the FAQ and bring it with you.

 

While I agree with the points you made about the devs and scouts (although maybe he is using the storm for his terminators or land turn objective grabs... who knows.) he has 15 scoring models... His terminators count as troops.

 

His real issue is going to be getting to grips with his enemy quickly and effectively, not a lack of scoring units.

[Brother Saturnus]

I.agree the landspeeder storm isn't the best for snipers, but it works well as both a redeployment for scouts and as a fire magnet ( people really want to see opentop armor 10 go up in flames. It also provides decent fire support against infantry trying to move on my scouts. Over all it has been ok in some games and a fireball in others... LOL. I should have "assault" scouts in there, but oh well. I have been experimenting with it as a fire platform for my scouts (light mobile bunker).

As for the mixing of heavy weapons, you are right! The weapons I chose are what I cannibalized off of models I found in my old bit box. It seems in theory to be a good deterrent agaimt infantry in more troop heavy lists, but in this case against a mech list my devastators have thier work cut out and will be only targeting heavies. As you guys have said, I need to get to grips in assault and show the chaos scum the power of imperial steel! Snipers will target the prince, then oblits, and my tactical assault marines will tie down and gut his scoring units.Contemptor will do what it does best, be a massive unkillable (so far) Dick and try to... Idk walk up to the predators and rip them apart while showering oblits/ infantry with burning jot plasma

 

Should I deep strike Tyberos N' friends? They are more mobile and reactionary that way, but have a turn of potenktially getting shot to bloody bits while they sit around after deep striking as I can't assault after teleporting :D

 

Thanks for responding everyone! Really good food for thought and I appreciate all the feed back! I play the game in like 2 hours,l after that ill post a (perhaps crude) play by play and let you all know how I faired in bringing the Emperor's Justice to these debauched deviants.

[DarkGuard]

While I agree with the points you made about the devs and scouts (although maybe he is using the storm for his terminators or land turn objective grabs... who knows.) he has 15 scoring models... His terminators count as troops.

 

His real issue is going to be getting to grips with his enemy quickly and effectively, not a lack of scoring units.

 

Oh yeah, forgot about them. But how hard is to kill 5 man units? A big Tactical squad would really help with bolstering his troops survivability.

 

@ Brother Saturnus, the problem with the LSS is it's not a good fire magnet. Any good opponent will leave it be as it's not going to be that damaging and focus on your Razorbacks etc. Now when you consider that 55pts, plus dropping all extra armour and maybe the Scout's teleport homer will get another 5 Tactical Marines, plus a special weapon and heavy weapon for that squad actually letting it be useful, it'll be a good trade, especially at this points level when you really can't afford to sink points into a unit that can't do much and whose main focus is to draw a little bit of fire.

[Brother Saturnus]

...I have 5 men to assemble it seems. :B what weapons would be most appropriate? Melta gun/ missile? Or something mor exotic? I have a really nasty bionic sargent with plasma pistol and powerfist I've been itching to introduce to the traitor scum. He's a bit too pricy maybe.

 

Btw do you mean dropping the razor back in exchange for a rhino or combat squading them?

[Brother Saturnus]

VICTORY! The game ended up being annihilation spearhead with two bastions, a ruin and a lot of walls and craters. We fought tooth and nail for 6 turns. His tzneech demon prince killed almost all of my marines ( dropped the speeder and added 5 guys with a amelta and a multimelta.) But in the end my Contemptor killed it (not before it was weapon destroyed and immobised though). My devastators were almost killed to a man but refused to die before taking out his predator and injuring his obliterators (ironicly with the heavy bolter.) Tyberos and the Terminators killed his obliterators, his drednaught, a predator, and 10 marines!

Snipers scared his prince for 2 turns and it hid while they stuck around providing support where they could. Chaplain got killed by his prince along with his squad... Thought i could take it out, so I rushed him but to no avail. He was very dispointed by the chaos faq warptime clarification AMD argued till I showed him the pink text from gw. Overall, I won well but at severe cost. I could have preformed better, but so could he.

 

Thanks for all input and support! It really made the difference.

[Paulochromis]

Am I missing something? You had all the pluses from IA, and he had one of the weakest dexes in 5e, as well as a serious nerf to his potential MVP.

That notwithstanding, I'm glad you got to enjoy a close game. Suggest you make sure he enjoyed it too.

[DarkGuard]

...I have 5 men to assemble it seems. :B what weapons would be most appropriate? Melta gun/ missile? Or something mor exotic? I have a really nasty bionic sargent with plasma pistol and powerfist I've been itching to introduce to the traitor scum. He's a bit too pricy maybe.

 

Btw do you mean dropping the razor back in exchange for a rhino or combat squading them?

 

I'd go combi-melta, meltagun, missile launcher/plasma cannon in this list, melta will be handy.

 

Also, drop the Razorback to the Rhino, never force yourself to combat squad with a Tactical squad, make them so they are a ranged squad that combat squad with a Razorback, or a close ranged squad that can combat squad with a Rhino.

 

EDIT: well done with the victory, and glad you had fun. I'm a bit disappointed that he hasn't kept on top of his army's FAQ, they FAQed nearly all of them at the same time, a simple glance at any forum would have told him about it. But it's a problem everywhere.