Deathwing and Tyranids

[Haranin]

Hello,

 

Just restarting 40k, and building up a deathwing army.

 

Dropped by the LGS this weekend to pick up some paint brushes, and noticed about half the armies on the tables were nids.

 

Any Deathwing players have advice about playing nids?

 

Thanks! Its going to be another month before I start playing... need to finish painting, and assembling another LR...

[nehemiah]

I see a lot of Nids (and Eldar). Against Nids take cyclones on all your squads, plus as many landspeeder with typhoon missile launchers as you can. Take 3 storm bolters and 2 th+storm shields per squad (for monstrous creatures) and don't bother with chainfists. Try and refuse a flank if possible and deploy all your squads together, let them come to you and take out the monstrous creatures asap with kraks, then thin down any large squads before charging. It's a bit trickier if you need to advance across the board on the two objective mission but don't forget if you keep your landspeeders alive they can move to contest turn 5, while you hold your own. hope this helps, it's worked for me.

 

oh and if you are facing tyranid warriors with boneswords, always take them out with krak missiles, you don't want to face these guys in combat - in this case I don't shoot my storm bolters at them to avoid wound allocation shennanigans.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

You're in luck, sir! Because my first army is Tyranid and I've got a 14-4 win/loss record against Space Marines alone. This may take a second.. so just hold on while I type it.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

VERSUS TYRANID TACTICA!

 

 

Who are the Tyranid?

The Tyranid are a race of highly evolved intergalactic predators. They are primarily know as a swarm army. They currently have a 5th edition codex but are not considered that competitive when compared to other armies such as Grey Knights or Dark Eldar.

 

What are their strengths?

Tyranids are a melee focused army. They are great with coming to grips with the enemy and tearing them to pieces in the assault. It is widely accepted that the Tyranid Genestealer is the best close combat unit in all of 40k. The Tyranid use massive numbers of cheap troops to overwhelm their opponents. For the Tyranid, quantity has a quality all it's own. They also have access to terrifying Monstrous Creatures and tons of psykers. Speaking of psykers, a great many Tyranid models have what is called "Shadow in the Warp". This is an area effect special rule that seriously inhibits any enemy psykers foolish enough to venture to close. The Tyranid also have a great many unique characters and enough upgrades options to make Tzeentch's head spin. Finally, Tyranids are great at null deployment tactics. Many of their most powerful units (Genestealers included) can Outflank/Infiltrate/Deepstrike.

 

But the greatest strength they have is an opponent who doesn't fight the Tyranid on a regular basis. In 4th edition it was incredibly easy for a Tyranid player to cheat when it came to how their army was upgrade. For an example let's take the Space Marine's Power Fist. Everyone who has played 40k for even a little bit can identify a PF. It looks pretty much the same no matter what Space Marine chapter is being played. Tyranid upgrades, on the other hand, are very hard to identify for someone unfamiliar with what to look for. To a non Tyranid player the little bitty "bumps" under the arms of those Genestealers look like they belong there on the model (like a purity seal)... never suspecting that in reality they give those Space Hulk devils 4+ Poison attacks in close combat!

 

 

What are their weaknesses?

As I said earlier, Tyranids are not considered to be a competitive army in 5th edition 40k. This is because of 2 incredibly glaring and easily exploitable flaws. The first and most important to remember is that they have almost no way to deal with high AV vehicles! Their are no melta weapons (including the bomb equivalent) and no AP3 ranged weapons for the Tyranid army. If you've ever really wanted to see an opponent go red in the face then bring 2 to 3 Landraiders. You'll be practically untouchable to all but the Tyranid player's largest monstrous creatures. The second major flaw is their deployment options. Until the Dark Eldar's new codex came out the Tyranids were the kings of null deployment. The only problem with that is that it's all they can effectively do. Even the simplest Space Marine gunline can rapid fire a bloody path through an approaching swarm. So you can almost always be expecting that the Tyranid player will try to come at you from different angles. By knowing what is doing what where a clever opponent can easily prepare for the Tyranid's approach. Null Deployment is pretty much all they can do... even if they do it extremely well.

 

The last easily exploitable flaw is the Tyranid army's need for Synapse. The easiest way to explain this is to say that all of the little Tyranids are mindless beasts being psychically herded into war by the bigger Tyranid creatures. If the smaller Tyranids become too far removed from their alien overseers (or that overseer takes a krak missile to the face and dies) then they go feral and can barely be controlled by the Tyranid Player.

 

 

Common Misconceptions

1st.

A lot of players are in the habit of warning other players about the Tyranid Carnifex. This is do to the fearsome reputation the monster received in 4th edition. However, you will rarely see a Tyranid player use a Carnifex in the current 5th edition rules. Why? Because they're WAY too expensive (points wise) to field and they're too easy to kill now. In 4th edition the Tyranid Players could bring army lists called Nidzilla's which were based around a massive amount of Monstrous Creatures. Because of the atrocious price hike in Tyranid MC's you'll hardly see any of these lists ever hit the field.

 

2nd.

Most folks think that Tyranids are incredibly weak when it comes to ranged combat. This is not entirely true. Every Tyranid ranged weapon (even their barrages) are Assault weapons. They haven't a single Rapid Fire, Heavy, or Pistol at their disposal. The average range on a Tyranid weapon is between 18" - 36". Most of these guns get at least 2, if not 3 shots. Let's take the Tyranid Devourers- it's an 18" Str 4 AP- Assault 3 weapon. You may look at that and say "Bah! My bolter is better!" and you'd be correct in saying that but now think of 20 little cheap Tyranid troops each armed with one of these. That's 60 shots a turn from a single unit! By reason of attrition alone I have seen scores of Terminators wiped out do to these weapons. Now, imagine that brood of 20 units deepstriking into your deployment zone and tearing up your 5 man Devestator Squads before you can retaliate!... makes you look at it a little different, huh?

 

3rd.

For some reason non Tyranid players believe that small blast weapons are the way to go when versusing a swarm army. In truth, most Tyranid players would like you to keep believing that. Even a simpleton knows how to spread out their swarm so that that the blast hits one or maybe two models. What really terrifies a Tyranid player are high strength/multiple shot weapons- like Assault Cannons, Hurricane Bolters, large groups of Storm Bolters, ect. ect. Or Castellian Missiles from a Whirlwind because most Tyranids have 6+ "T-Shirt" saves and rely heavily on cover.

 

 

Notable Units To Watch Out For

 

Hive Guard

This is one of the best Tyranid units. They are high toughness ranged units usually coming in sets of 2-3 with 2 wounds per model. What makes these guys scary is their Impaler Cannon. It's a 24" Str 8 AP 4 Assault 2 weapon. Worst yet, is that the Hive Guard doesn't need Line of Sight to shoot at you and thanks to the latest FAQ you can only get a cover save against this weapon if you're standing in terrain. Not even popping smoke will save your vehicles. This weapon is the bane of Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Dreadnoughts.

 

Tervigon

This Monstrous Creature can be found among the Tyranid HQ choices but thanks to some poor horrible sick joke a Tyranid player has a way that they can take them as Troop choices. An MC that can hold an objective... Matt Ward probably patted the author of the Tyranid codex on the back for that one. These MC's are primarily for support. They're Psykers that can give nearby units Feel No Pain and a bunch of other Universal Rules like Counter Attack and Furious Charge. One of their unique Psychic abilities is called Onslaught in which allows a single unit of Tyranids to Move, Run, Shoot, and Assault in the same turn. That's pretty nasty when you give it to a Hive Guard brood or a group of 20 Termagaunts armed with Devourers.

 

However, what this model is most known for is it's ability to spawn Termagaunts. Termaguants are the most basic of Troop choices for a Tyranid player. The Tervigon has the ability to spawn a TON of these guys (3d6/turn) to create a slimy wall of death to tarpit anything in its path. However, the Tervigon has a chance to "run out" of Termagaunts.

 

Genestealers

The Dreaded Space Hulk Devil! These guys are scary! First, they're Troop choices. They have WS 6, Str, 4, Toughness 4, Initiative 6, and 2 attacks each. You may be say "that doesn't sound all that bad" but wait, there's more! These guys have the Rending Special Rule on all of their close combat attacks. On top of that they have Fleet, Infiltrate, and Move Through Cover. Still doesn't sound that bad? Well, they can be cheaply upgraded with Toxin Sacs (4+ Poison Attacks), Adrenal Glands (Furious Charge), and Scything Talons (reroll all 1's To Hit). So imagine this scenario with some Mathammer thrown in for good measure-

 

20 Genestealers Outflank on the second turn next to your ranged Terminator squad. They move 6, Run 6, and Assualt 6 to get 18" to your unit. They get the charge giving the 20 of them 3 attacks a piece and their initiative of 6 lets them swing first. That's 60 attacks slapped on your Termies with no if's, and's, or but's about it.

 

Their weapon skill of 6 means they're hitting on 3's. That means 2/3rds of the attacks actually hit (that's 40 so far) but the scything talons let them reroll 1's (which would probably be on average a sixth of the attacks) meaning they reroll 10 of the failed To Hits. 2/3rds of 10 is 6 rounded down. That means in total so far they landed 46 of their possible 60 attacks.

Now, their Toxin Sacs make them wound on 4's regardless and since the average Space Marine's Toughness is equal to the Strength of the Genestealer they get to reroll failed To Wounds because of the poison rule. So a 4+ is on average half. That means 23 of the 46 have wounded and since they're Rending we'll say that a sixth of the 46 (around 8 or so) you can't take armor saves from. Now, the Genestealers reroll their failed 23 To Wound and get half of those as well. We'll say on average 12 more Wounded and a sixth of those (4) are Rending. That means that in total the Terminators have 25 regular wounds and 12 Rending Wounds.

 

Allocating the wounds on a 5-man long range Termie squad you get one unlucky chap with 8 of the Rending, another one with 4 of the Rending and 4 of the Regular, and the rest with 7 wounds a piece. Statically, the Terminators will not survive and even if they do the survivors might take out 3 or 4 Genestealers and then next turn the Stealers would go first again.

 

As you can see, against regular armored Power Marines these guys will wipe the floor with them. One good thing to remember is that these guys don't have assault grenades. That means if you're standing in cover the initiative of their first round of attacks is at 1. Giving you a slight chance.

 

The Doom of Mala'tai

Oh God, what a scary unique Elite choice! This "creature" sucks out the souls of your men and becomes stronger for it. First off, this guy is a Psyker with a single Psychic power- Cataclysm. Cataclysm is a 24", Str X, AP 1, Large Blast. The strength of this power is equal to the current strength of the DoM. Thankfully, after shooting this power the DoM loses a d3 worth of wounds. He has a couple of special abilities that aren't psychic powers. The most notable is Spirit Leach. This one happens at the beginning of each shooting phase (opponents and yours). It states that any enemy unit within 6" of the DoM must take a leadership test on a 3d6. For each point they fail it they take a single wound that ignores armor saves. However, cover saves and invulnerable saves may be taken. Worst yet is that the DoM has another ability that for every wound it causes the DoM gains a Wound up to a maximum of 10. That means, if it punches you in the face, sucks your soul out in the shooting phase, or harms you with it's psychic power then it gains a Wound. Scarier still is that it has another power (which I believe is called Psychic Strength) that the monster's Strength score is always equal to its current Wounds. Even worst still is that the Doom of Malan'tai can take a Mycetic Spore and be deepstriked without the chance of Mishap directly into the heart of your army to start it's soul sucking immediately!

 

The one saving grace against this creature is that it only has a toughness of 4 meaning it can be instant killed by a krak missile to the face! w00t!!!

 

 

Trygon

This is the monstrous creature that has replaced the Carnifex as the staple Tyranid MC in army lists. This guy is pretty nasty. WS 5, Str 6, Toughness 6, Wounds 6, Initiative 4, Attacks 6, Sv 3+. It's a pretty tough contender and one of the only Tyranid models that can easily fillet a Landraider. It comes with x2 Scything Talons allowing it to reroll all failed To Hits. It can also be given Regeneration and Adrenal Glands. The Adrenal Glands give the monster Furious Charge to strike at initiative 5. It may also be upgraded to a Tyrgon Prime allowing it to give Synapse. It has a shooting attack that has the potential to be nasty but most folks run this beasty. It can be deepstriked but Tyranid players rarely do that unless to use the beast as a bullet sponge. As far as special rules go it has Fleet allowing it to Run and Assault. Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields will obliterate the Trygon.

 

Remember that the best way to take down Tyranid Monstrous Creatures is to focus fire of your heavy weapons. If the creature has Regeneration then not killing it in one turn means it might be harder to deal with it later.

 

 

 

Weapon Prioritization

It's worth noting which type of Space Marine weapon you want to go into combat with. Here's a list to help you prioritize. It's from best to worst.

 

1st - Flamer (Most Useful. Especially when versing the Swarm. Kills Genestealers dead!)

2nd - Bolter (Moderately Useful in almost all situations)

3rd - Plasma (Situation Specific. Perfect for taking down MC's)

4th - Melta (Oh God, why'd you bring this!?)

 

 

 

Your Versus Tyranid Check List

 

When fighting Tyranids follow these preliminary steps to get a little advantage before the game starts!

 

1st- Find out which creatures give Synapse (kill them quickly)

2nd- Ask about what kind of biomorphs the models have. Things like Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Lash Whips, ect. (Know what you're up against!)

3rd- Identify what Monstrous Creatures you'll be facing. (most Tyranid MC's are custom conversions seeing as how GW never released the models)

4th- Ask about Genestealers and the Doom of Malan'tai (You'll thank me for this )

5th- Note where the area terrain is and stay in it. (Remember that Tyranids have only a handful of models with assault grenades)

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I could talk a lot more on the subject of these Xenos but I've got Fallen to go catch. Hope this helps you in your endeavors!

 

-edits-

Grammar Corrections...

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nice one MoS, also remember that bugger all nids have grenades.

SO termies in cover with LC/LC go before even 'stealers, it does help to even things out a little but I'd still rather go with MoS advice and shoot them than fight them.

Put LC/CML nators in cover/near crusaders FTW.

And use WW and Vindie support too.

 

EDIT:DOH, just noticed you mentioned that :D

[Diavlo]

WOW

Mercy Of Spades

 

It's the best and the most informative answer I have ever seen on the internet on any subject.

 

I think i just rolled 2 and I'm stunned.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

WOW

Mercy Of Spades

 

It's the best and the most informative answer I have ever seen on the internet on any subject.

 

I think i just rolled 2 and I'm stunned.

 

lol Thanks man.

 

By the way, you better be careful. 20 Genestealers with Adrenal Gland can really mess up a vehicle that can't move ;)

[Isiah]

I agree that's a helluva 'know your enemy' roundup ;).

 

Cheers

I

[Haranin]

wow. Thanks! This is getting printed off

[RayJ]

In a swarm list, or most competitive lists, Tervigons are your #1 priority. Killing them seriously damages all termagaunt units in 6 inches, and prevents the player from providing more gaunt reinforcements.

 

Vs Genestealer squads, stay over 18 inches from the edge and in terrain. This will keep them from getting the drop on you when they arrive, and ensures that when they do hit, they won't kill you before you can swing. A few squads shooting bolters and missiles into them when they outflank near you will reduce their numbers to a manageable level.

 

Throw your command squad into the toughest threats (warriors with boneswords, monstrous creatures, etc). They should all be geared with hammers and shields anyway, so will withstand the punishment, and can do a lot vs swarms of gaunts as well. When in a combat vs multiple units, direct enough attacks into the MCs that you will kill them on average, and put the rest into the smaller gaunt units. This will take out the more threatening power weapon type attacks, and the horde will still thin itself when it takes more wounds from fearless.

 

Deathwing built and played properly is pretty much a hard counter for Tyranids. Everything is durable, wounds MCs on 2+, and gets around the high saves on the MCs. After a handful of games you should not be having any trouble with your tyranid opponents.

[Mercy 0f Spades]

Vs Genestealer squads, stay over 18 inches from the edge and in terrain. This will keep them from getting the drop on you when they arrive, and ensures that when they do hit, they won't kill you before you can swing. A few squads shooting bolters and missiles into them when they outflank near you will reduce their numbers to a manageable level.

 

 

I'm going to agree with this. If you're playing against a competent opponent then you might fight a list that is used like this. This is a good example of Null Deployment.

 

 

 

x4 Broods of 10+ Genestealers will Outflank scaring your army into the center of the table.

 

A Tervigon or two, supported by groups of Hive Guards and a Trygon will advance up the middle of the board towards your army.

 

The Tervigon will be spawning Termagaunts in an object based game in the hopes to send free troops to claim them while you stay in the middle for fear of the Genestealers.

 

The Doom of Malan'tai is then deepstriked directly into the heart of your clustered forces to help kill as many troops as possible.

 

It should be said that a DoM is just a distraction getting you to waste precious rounds of shooting to deal with it.

 

The Genestealers will then rapidly advance from the flanks as you waste shots on the DoM and the approaching Trygon.

 

In the end the full might of his army is shoved in your face to deal with.

 

 

This is a good tactic for Tyranids. It's pretty effective but do you know how you counter it? By braving the Genestealer infested flanks. It'll throw the whole strategy off. All you've got to do is try to figure out how to deal with 40 Genestealers because if you really think about it you'd have to deal with them all in the end eventually. Might as well do it during the middle of the game when they don't have support.