What chariots do you rock in battle?

[Twin .44]

Since my Draigowing army is coming to completion over the next month or two, I wanted to consider a normal/purifier army in the future. Now, I'm curious as to what transports are even worth taking when it comes to PAGKs (including Stormravens and Land Raiders) in the game. I did a search and found no dedicated thread to the transport arena. So here's a rundown from my own head:

 

Rhino: The cheap troop carrier of choice. Trying to keep things as inexpensive as possible while still transporting, this is the way to go. Two guys can stick their head out and shoot out some psycannon mayhem. No organization slot used.

 

Razorback: Still on the cheap, and carry less faithful superhumans at a time than a rhino, but can bring some extra hurt to the table. Higher range than psycannons on the psybolt heavy bolter, but one less shot, one less strength. Assault cannon with psybolts is useless if you've got a pair of psycannons (same thing). Other option are pretty much normal as everything else. No organization slot used.

 

Stormraven: On to expensive beasts. An option for whatever you may need along with a little extra horde busting or psyker screw you's with the Mindstrike missiles. Can transport anything but a dreadknight and can assault afterwords if you didn't move too fast. Also, you move fast and have great mobility to get your boys where they need to be, or a last second effort to contest and objective. Eats a Fast Attack slot.

 

Land Raider: Default Space Marine heavy duty armor. Often a pill to make go away, some people may do stupid crap just to try and get rid of it. Not very fast, but you can choose a variety of types depending on your situation to deal with some things in it's own way. Eats a Heavy Support choice, taking away from potential Psyrifle Dreads.

 

Nothing: No slots used, no points used, just the good old fashioned feet, the way the Emperor originally wanted it to be. Exposes your units to small arms fire, and the occasional lascannon in the face.

 

No matter what you choose, you've got either a glass jaw or a bullet magnet. So, what chariots do your boys ride into battle, if any at all? Any reasons as to why you choose them? And finally, how do they fare on the field?

[Inquisitor Fox]

... Assault cannon with psybolts is useless if you've got a pair of psycannons (same thing). ...

Actually this isn't quite true. A vehicle mounted psycannon always fires in heavy mode, as opposed to an infantry mounted model which on the move fires half the shots. Paired with an on the move psycannon in the squad, this would be 6 shots on the move 6" rather than 4 if you just had two infantry mounted models.

 

Admittedly, it's less shots than a stationary infantry squad (8 shots), but if you are advancing and want to maintain higher volume of heavy weapons fire, vehicle mounted variants are incredibly useful. In addition, it provides some near-immunity from small arms fire to the front and side arcs for the embarked passengers while maintaining volume of fire of the psycannon even with everyone embarked (4 shots in heavy mode being equivalent to 4 shots on the move from 2 infantry psycannons).

 

You also forgot to mention the coolest transport ability... deep strike via teleport pad ;) Sure, there's some risks, but nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Twin .44]

... Assault cannon with psybolts is useless if you've got a pair of psycannons (same thing). ...

Actually this isn't quite true. A vehicle mounted psycannon always fires in heavy mode, as opposed to an infantry mounted model which on the move fires half the shots. Paired with an on the move psycannon in the squad, this would be 6 shots on the move 6" rather than 4 if you just had two infantry mounted models.

 

Should have clarified. As opposed to a squad in a rhino.

Assault cannon razorback w/psybolts. S7 heavy 4. Only move 6"

Rhino, squad, 2 psycannons. Move 12" and still fire the same amount of rounds, same distance.

Obviously this is only if you're running psycannons, as opposed to incinerators. The point I'm making is that is you run two psycannons, no real need to pay 85 points for something you can do in another transport that you pay half for.

 

And of course Deep Striking is fun, but also if you're running Purifiers, that goes bye-bye. But sure, if you deep strike, feel free to add that in too! I've been known to deep strike myself, and I've also been known to be completely out of my mind on occasion, but it's fun nonetheless :yes:

[the jeske]

A am not getting something here . you want to play a gunline build and you get almost immune to stuns razorbacks [where stuning is the best way to stop a razorbuild from working] and you think that this is bad ?

 

B force multiplication . 8 psycannons do not work 50% better then 4 .

 

C while it is true that adding weapons which GK cant carry is probably the better idea if someone doesnt run a crow build[las/pals or twin las razors] in a puri build you want maximum rending 40-60 shots per turn is on avarge enouhg to counter av14 too.

 

 

storms and LR are only for deathstars. DCAs or units of multi HQ[GM+techmarin+something grandes tons of A etc] . neither puris nor power armored GK do death star good , so those are out of the question as transports.

[Cho Kai]

GK 'transports' are really used more as mobile weapons platforms than as boxxes. Psy-razorbacks (Assault Cannon) are some of the best extra firepower you can add to an army. Marching up using a transport as mobile cover and extra firepower that has to be tarteted separately is probably one of the best things you can field.

[Twin .44]

Ok, forget any personal thoughts I put up. It just drives me nuts when one little detail gets picked apart by everything, so forget it. Let's just get down to brass tacks.

 

How do you move/protect/do anything via transportable vehicles with PAGK, and why? What's your strategy, etc?

[redfeild32]

smoke and hide them from high stregnth weapons via land raider

[spartan249]

I'm experimenting with eschewing any form of transportation for my knights and just marching where I need to go. I think the only reason this works is because of storm bolters and psycannons; normal marines could never get away with just slogging around as they lose basically all of their firepower to do so.

 

I've been playing PuriHorde for the last 25 games, and while it's effective when the enemy comes to you, it's not as hot when the enemy force has no incentive to close the distance. I think that a degree of tactical flexibility in the form of deployment options is necessary to have all the tools to pull off a slogging grey knight army, otherwise the available methods for engaging enemy forces becomes very thin very quickly during a skirmish.

 

Last thing I think is necessary if the army is marching is alternate methods of troop preservation. Rhinos/Razorbacks/Stormravens provide infantry a certain degree of protection from essentially everything for a little while. Without this, infantry are prone to dying significantly faster. There needs to be some sort of mechanism to either reduce the enemy's ability to engage your forces or a particular method to force the enemy into chokepoints to even the odds. Examples of both would include the Shrouding used in conjunction with a fortified ruin as an example of the former and using a large piece of terrain to funnel enemy forces into your killzones as a simple example of the latter.

[Gentlemanloser]

As above, at the moment I'm considering not using transports for my PA/TAGK.

 

But I do want to inlcude a couple of razorbacks (HB, not AC) for the extra range.

 

Currently, my army plans to use 2 3 man Warrior Accolyte squads in Razorbacks to hang back in my deployment zone.

 

A little more range, and a cheap scoring unit that can't be Tank Shocked. You need to pop the Razor before you can melt the 3 man Squad inside.

 

3 Warriors with Bolters and a Psybolt HB Razorback is 65 points.

 

On the other hand, if I owned 10+ Rhinos/Razors, I'd probably run a Strike based MSU list. But I don't. :)

[Morollan]

Should have clarified. As opposed to a squad in a rhino.

Assault cannon razorback w/psybolts. S7 heavy 4. Only move 6"

Rhino, squad, 2 psycannons. Move 12" and still fire the same amount of rounds, same distance.

 

Am I mising something? You can't move 12" and fire those pyscannons (unless you disembark). Vehicle passengers can only fire if the vehicle moved 6" or less.

[Darkmagi]

Should have clarified. As opposed to a squad in a rhino.

Assault cannon razorback w/psybolts. S7 heavy 4. Only move 6"

Rhino, squad, 2 psycannons. Move 12" and still fire the same amount of rounds, same distance.

 

Am I mising something? You can't move 12" and fire those pyscannons (unless you disembark). Vehicle passengers can only fire if the vehicle moved 6" or less.

He probably means disembark the psycannons so they can shoot. OT I use 2x LRR and 1x LRC if I'm using PAGK usually they are purifiers in a crowe wing setup... though I much prefer my drago wing.

[Twin .44]

Should have clarified. As opposed to a squad in a rhino.

Assault cannon razorback w/psybolts. S7 heavy 4. Only move 6"

Rhino, squad, 2 psycannons. Move 12" and still fire the same amount of rounds, same distance.

 

Am I mising something? You can't move 12" and fire those pyscannons (unless you disembark). Vehicle passengers can only fire if the vehicle moved 6" or less.

He probably means disembark the psycannons so they can shoot. OT I use 2x LRR and 1x LRC if I'm using PAGK usually they are purifiers in a crowe wing setup... though I much prefer my drago wing.

 

Yes, disembarking.

 

But it seems like there's a lot of love for the Land Raider side of the argument so far. Personally, I'm not a fan of the redeemer, but that's just me. Templar player = Crusader nut. I have one GK raider I haven't touched for years (and never finished) so maybe I'll run at least one.

 

@ Gentlmanloser: I love the idea of the 3 warriors in the razorback. Epic cost savings on troops :D And sorry to sound rather noobish, but what is an MSU list? I've only been back a month, so I don't recall everything :P

 

@ spartan: I agree that footslogging is a difficult way to go, especially with a basic troop choice running in at 20 points per model. If Orks were coming forward, no big deal, Tau staying back, it's going to be a looooong walk.

 

Anyone use Stormravens?

[spartan249]

I think Stormravens are best used with units that absolutely must get into close quarters battle as soon as possible (Terminators/Paladins, certain Purifier builds, and DCAs come to mind). For any other purpose, I think Rhinos/Razorbacks and Land Raiders fulfill the needs of the POU more efficiently or more capably.

 

Stormie = about 3 to 4 razorbacks depending on armament. LRs boast superior armor (frag grenades for the shorter ranged variants) and have a lower profile for easier hiding. If it's not barreling straight into the enemy with a 3+ cover, I don't see the point in it.

[The Holy Heretic]

Deepstriking is the only way to go. Vehicles can get shot or run out of fuel, or get stuck in some mud..

 

Teleportation is the only way to make sure that you get where you want to go <_<

[Gentlemanloser]

Apart from the Raven, none of ou other Transports can DS can they?

 

but what is an MSU list?

 

Something like this;

 

HQ: OM Inq, TDA, Psy (80)

HQ: OM Inq, TDA, Psy (80)

 

Elite: Puri x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt (190)

Elite: Puri x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt (190)

Elite: Puri x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt (190)

Elite: Warrior x5, Razor, Psybolt (70)

Elite: Warrior x5, Razor, Psybolt (70)

 

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt (160)

 

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x1, Razor, Psybolt (170)

 

Total: 2,000

 

You walk an Inq with the Warrior Meat Shields. Move up every other Squad in Razors and disembark.

 

That's 12 Rhinos, 12 TL S6 HB, and 15 Psycannons.

 

Let alone the SB fire. ;)

 

Pew Pew!

 

(You can tweak this sort of list many ways. Free up points for Daemnhammers, etc)

[Twin .44]

Ah, so that's MSU. Interesting, but sounds a little Imperial Guard with all the guns :)

 

So would this be an accurate way to boil down the different transports:

 

Rhino - Not much here so far, but good unit to take a quick lascannon to it without losing infantry. Protection from small arms fire (and potential crappy rolls). Units: ten man PAGK, Inquisitorial Henchman, etc.

 

Razorbacks - Gunline builds. An overwhelming amount of firepower to combat horde and light armor, while the infantry take out heavy armor (if need be with psycannons) or just add extra punishment to enemy infantry. Units: Small IH, objective holders,

 

Stormravens - Fast combat efficiency while providing a good amount of firepower to take out enemy vehicles, or softening the enemy advance, readying the inside infantry for combat. Less effective against high Weapon Strength spam. Units: Paladins, Terminators, Combat Purifiers.

 

Land Raiders - High end infantry protection. Variants can be used for multiple tasks of dealing with the enemy. Slower assault unit than SR. Less effective against high Weapon Strength spam. (Personal thought: distraction unit, get heavy firepower on it to distract from real threat, or important hold point). Units: just about anything that may need protected.

 

Additions, thoughts to build on?

[Avarris]

I've used Stormraven's twice, once when I only had 1 on the field and the second I had 2 (I now have 3, 1 is finished and the other 2 are close to being finished). Both times they proved a bit of a fire magnet but if you get first turn you can be across the board and firing a twin-linked weapon in somethings face. Plus the fact you can assault out of them if they move is very helpful.

 

I also use Razorbacks for my PA guys as they can be quick to move up the board plus they boost the lack of heavy anti-tank weapons that Grey Knights suffer if you don't take Twin-Autocannon Dreads (just hate using them (PM me about it)). I have also made my Razorbacks so that they can be turned into Rhino's when I take the squads up to 10 men as at the moment they are 5.

[Gentlemanloser]

You can also build Psycannon Razorback MSU lists, so that every gun in your army can shred Armour and Infantry.

 

But you're fixed into 24" range then, and as they're more expesnive than HBolterbacks, you get less. Obviously. ;)

 

Rhinos can be useful for sticking;

 

5 Puri's with 2 Psycannons

5 Strikes with 2 Psycannons (combat Squad the other 5 somewhere)

3+ Warrior Accolytes with 2/3 Meltas

 

As you get the ability to fire two out of the top hatch, protected by 'Fortitude' and you get protection from small arms and CC.

 

But some prefer Razors with thier own guns, and to disembark/footslog thier PA troops to fire alongside them.

 

Only 10 points more for a S6 Heavy Bolter, that's sometimes too good to miss. ;)

 

As for Storm Ravens, its common to see Libby's in them for Shrouding (3+ Cover save ftw!), and Also for them to carry DCA.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Storm Ravens allow for pinpoint deep strikes for Interceptor squads with zero scatter, and are also the way to deploy Dreadnoughts via transport. These uses, while not "common" like drive up and drop of a combat unit then see if you have a transport the next turn (which always seems silly to me as a waste of a perfectly good transport in a suicide rush) can be very effective in the right hands.

[Gentlemanloser]

It seems no one uses them to transport Interceptors though, and unlke the BA we don't have a CC orientated Dread to make use for being sped into CC. :(

 

WTB Double GreatSword Dreads! ;)

[Something Wycked]

Nothing: No slots used, no points used, just the good old fashioned feet, the way the Emperor originally wanted it to be. Exposes your units to small arms fire, and the occasional lascannon in the face.

 

No matter what you choose, you've got either a glass jaw or a bullet magnet. So, what chariots do your boys ride into battle, if any at all? Any reasons as to why you choose them? And finally, how do they fare on the field?

None; but my GKs are Strikes and Interceptors only, so deployment isn't a problem. Either they can move 12" (Interceptors) or they can Deep Strike where they need to be (both).

 

It may seem weird since I have no transports for my Strikes, but my army is predicated on mobility and making what my opponents spend on anti-tank weapons wasted points.

 

It works rather well, actually :(

[Inquisitor Fox]

It seems no one uses them to transport Interceptors though, and unlke the BA we don't have a CC orientated Dread to make use for being sped into CC. :)

 

WTB Double GreatSword Dreads! ;)

Apparently I plan on being nobody then.. because I plan on using one to deploy Interceptors in enemy territory with pinpoint accuracy and to be able to have deployment options for a psyflemen with different LOS corridors than my deployment zone :rolleyes:

 

Then again, I've always been one to go for unconventional approaches anyway... but I have a lot of fun with it and most people aren't expecting it :huh:

[Gentlemanloser]

I was referring to the Thread I made about Stormravens recently. :)

[Aidoneus]

Personally, I use none. I use mostly Strike Squads, with usually 1 termie squad and 1-2 interceptor squads. All my infantry can deep-strike, and often does. The only time I don't deep-strike, actually, is when my opponent is playing a CC army, and I want a turn or two to focus-fire all of my stuff at him before he gets to me. The other 90% of the time though, I DS in, ensuring that I get to hurt him before he hurts me. It also lets me deny him 1-2 turns of hurting me, lets me react to his early game movement, lets me set up refused flanks, lets me get beside/behind him, and just generally messes with his head. Plus, having a 10-man strike squad come in from reserves turn 5 and combat squad is great for late-game objective grabbing.

 

I've tried playing with rhinos and razorbacks before, but it's just too much of a liability in KP missions. And frankly, since I can walk 6" and shoot 24" with all my guns anyway, I never really needed the extra units to give me mobility. I have also tried using my 2 Land Raiders and 1 Crusader. Those work better than Rhinos, and certainly make the army rock-hard, but I just never feel as though they're better than 3 more full strike squads. It's hard to justify 3 tanks versus 30 GKs, complete with NFWs, S5 storm bolters, and psycannons.

 

Granted, if I played a more CC-oriented list, using purifiers and DCAs, I'd probably include some transports. But with all of our shooting abilities, I just don't really see the point.

[Murcielago]

Inquisitor Nicole, I love you ;)

 

Doing things the unconventional way just because you want to and you can. What a pimp right there.