adamv6 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Played a game at the weekend, and used holocaust twice, once with great effect, once with a 5" scatter completely missing. RAW it says its a shooting attack with a large blast, so, you roll scatter dice. However, this makes no sense, its a physic attack, the Paladin casting it can see the target, and concentrates his power and the other Paladins in his squads power and channels it accordingly. Surely he wouldn't have a brain fart and target the tree 50 feet away? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Raw Wins.... sure fluff wise it may not make sense but fluff does not equal rules for good reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-2997480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why shouldn't it scatter? Who told you that psychic powers have pin-point precision? And why even ask these questions? You're playing where the average infantry gun has a range of 50 yds. Where you drive your artillery pieces into football field engagement zones and start blasting away.. And then you question the realism of magic? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-2997610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I miss the old Holocaust, with its funky use-in-assault-only rules. Dropping a small pie plate while locked in assault was one of those ":)?" moments that when it worked, worked well. Of course, when it didn't work, you might as well just have shook your opponents hand and congradulated them on their sudden victory. The days! SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-2997806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I sure as heck wouldn't yearn for the previous GK book. It... wasn't good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3003148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The wind moved the massive orgy of flame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3003151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I sure as heck wouldn't yearn for the previous GK book. It... wasn't good. I do. The basic structure of Daemonhunters were a lot more interesting than Codex: Grey Knights - marines in silver. Sure the point costs and some rules were a bit dated, but I would have preferred that they'd built from that instead of just building it on a box of power armour marines and termies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3003190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Played a game at the weekend, and used holocaust twice, once with great effect, once with a 5" scatter completely missing. RAW it says its a shooting attack with a large blast, so, you roll scatter dice. However, this makes no sense, its a physic attack, the Paladin casting it can see the target, and concentrates his power and the other Paladins in his squads power and channels it accordingly. Surely he wouldn't have a brain fart and target the tree 50 feet away? :lol: He was admiring the awesome boobage on the Slaaneshi Daemonette he was trying to blast? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3003280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The basic structure of Daemonhunters were a lot more interesting than Codex: Grey Knights - marines in silver. Sure the point costs and some rules were a bit dated, but I would have preferred that they'd built from that instead of just building it on a box of power armour marines and termies. The Codex with *no* Fast Attack slot units? With only two troops options? With only 2 Grey Knight units (and a HQ) if you wished to play a Grey Knight army? It was a very lackluster, small, and incomplate army dex. The *only* thing that gave it any depth was the ability to nick units form other codexes. But that's a gimmick, and not good design for an army in it's own right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The basic structure of Daemonhunters were a lot more interesting than Codex: Grey Knights - marines in silver. Sure the point costs and some rules were a bit dated, but I would have preferred that they'd built from that instead of just building it on a box of power armour marines and termies. The Codex with *no* Fast Attack slot units? With only two troops options? With only 2 Grey Knight units (and a HQ) if you wished to play a Grey Knight army? It was a very lackluster, small, and incomplate army dex. The *only* thing that gave it any depth was the ability to nick units form other codexes. But that's a gimmick, and not good design for an army in it's own right. Sure, the 'dex wasn't a good one, and it was incomplete (yet only in the sense that the army used units from other armies instead of having unique snowflakes of its own). I agree. But the 'basic structure' - the idea behind the army - was a lot more interesting, with its unique mix of GEQ/MEQ/TDA squads. Reducing this variation to 'Codex: Silver Marines' is truly the definition of 'lackluster'. - Heck, the most notable difference between strikes/interceptors/purifiers and purgation squads are the number of psycannons they carry :D FUNNY FACT - you still only have two troop options ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 5. But three require SC to unlock them. We can still build a mix of GEQ/MEQ/TEQ now though. In a *much* more 'unique' fashion than the old dex. Unless you're talking about the ability to nick a handful of Guard units, over our IST. And some do. (Sure some play it 'pure' either way) Some of the more, potent, builds involve Coteaz with Melta Henchment, backed up by GKs (and any Termies/Pallies you want to throq in) due to the low cost of henchmen. Not only that, we've got a much more relxed structure allowing us to utilise radical Inquisitorial stuff alongside GK stuff (Relictors fluffy armies for example), that just wasn't possible in the old dex. Bar nicking units form other dexes, there is *nothing* we can do or replicated with the new Dex, that we could do in the old. I take that back. We can't do 8 LR lists anymore. Oh well. :P (Edit: 7LR. Inq Lords were 0-1 choice) GK being 'silver marines' is a trap you are letting yourself fall into. They're not. They're nothing like Marines, bar the similar stat line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I didn't play the old Daemonhunters 'dex, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But... GK being 'silver marines' is a trap you are letting yourself fall into. They're not. They're nothing like Marines, bar the similar stat line. Too true. These "silver marines" can't take melta or lascannons or missile launchers or speeders or or or... Where C:SM can play a long range shooting game with a good variety of units, the only way for the silver marines to do that is with Psyflemen. (No, Land Raiders and Stormravens don't count.) Take the standard C:SM Tactical Marine. Swap out his Bolt Pistol for a Force Sword, his Bolter for a Storm Bolter, give him TWO psychic powers, a special anti-psyker grenade, and the ability to Deep Strike, and now increase his cost by only 4 points. C:GK is a completely different paradigm than "silver marines." But the 'basic structure' - the idea behind the army - was a lot more interesting, with its unique mix of GEQ/MEQ/TDA squads. Reducing this variation to 'Codex: Silver Marines' is truly the definition of 'lackluster'. - Heck, the most notable difference between strikes/interceptors/purifiers and purgation squads are the number of psycannons they carry I'm confused about why you see it this way. C:GK has an even more unique mix of GEQ/MEQ/TDA, and more than that. Only a couple of the henchmen types are GEQ- the rest are very specialized, and the way they can be mixed and matched makes for some very interesting units. The MEQ, while similar to C:SM in some respects (combat squads, ATSKNF, "sergeant" leading the unit) is completely different in others. C:GK is the only MEQ codex that has shooty Jump Infantry. Stormbolters and Psycannons on a Jump Infantry platform? YES PLEASE. Every unit is a psyker, even the vehicles, with their own unique powers (excepting Strikes/Interceptors' duplication). The most notable difference between Strikes/Interceptors/Purifiers is not the amount of Psycannons they carry. Strikes and Interceptors have Warp Quake, which is one of the best tactical abilities in the entirety of 40k. If you bring a fair amount of one or the other unit (or both), opponents better choose wisely if they will be Deep Striking any units in their army. Armies that depend on Deep Strike for excellent positioning are screwed. Additionally, Interceptors are Jump Infantry. And more than that, they can move 30" once per game. No other unit has that, much less any other codex. Purifiers get +1 attack, Fearless, and swap out Warp Quake for Cleansing Flame, making them the perfect counter for horde armies. And the TDA is even more unique. There was no copy-pasta of Storm Shields into this codex. Who else gets 2 wound Terminators who can master craft everything they carry? Not to mention the feel that every Paladin is a hero all to himself with the way they can all carry unique gear suiting each individual. How is any of this "lackluster"? I'm geniunely confused how you could see it that way, especially when considering there was effectively only one way to play pure Grey Knights with the old codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Yeah, I just find it sad that all variation is based on a special character.. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Er... :P My previous post didn't even mention the SCs for a reason. ^_^ Crynn has effectively demonstrated how to have a full 10 man Paladin unit in an army without Draigo. Unless you want more than 2 Henchmen units, you don't need Coteaz. Purifiers aren't so expensive that they can't be part of an army without Crowe. The SCs just make their chosen units use Troop slots- it doesn't make those units (and all the variation they bring) any easier to take along. They just make it so you can have a whole army list of that unit type- and an army list made up of only one unit type is the opposite of variation ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 And let's not forget that The Grand Strategy makes the GK codex *the* most diverse in the game for scoring units. Scoring Walkers? Only Codex that can do it. Take 2 GK GM and you get the potential to have an amazing 24 (!!) Scoring units! (6 Strikes, 3 Puris, 3 Purgs all 10 man, and Combat Squad them). No other Codex can match 24 scoring units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Asides from infantry based Imperial Guard, but the chances of them all still being alive at the end is minimal :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 lol! Forgot the blobs! :woot: I suppose they can get 24 scoring units! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/247566-holocaust-why-does-it-scatter/#findComment-3004674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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